Thank you for the notes about how we talk about ACOTAR / being instinctively defensive. I read these books in the summer of 2021 as we were just starting to emerge from COVID but still having an exceptionally rough time. They got me back into reading for pleasure - I hadn’t wanted to stay up all night finishing a book since I was a teenager. There’s something to be said for embracing things that give us sheer delight.
Sarah - there is SO something to be said for embracing things that give us sheer delight. What the heck are we doing in life if we aren't doing that??
I also don't prescribe to crappy taste hierarchies so why it is so hard to admit to liking love stories or magic stories or love stories with magic? Why do I have to justify it? Its complicated but, for many of us, I suspect it has something to do with not wanting to be seen as dumb. Because smart women (and people) have to read "smart" books, right?
My eyes lit up when I saw this in my inbox this morning. I love ACOTAR and I love the cultural phenomenon it has become. I love that it caused me to start reading fantasy again and to start reading romance as well. And to slowly - still a work in progress - be ok telling people what I like to read. It gave me the permission I thought I needed.
Exactly! I love these books, but I still catch myself doing the same thing Anne describes with trying to justify myself or make sure people know that I also read “serious” books. I’m trying to be less judgmental of myself and other people - it probably has to do with the “chick lit” classification and how condescending that has been for so long.
I read them (as audiobooks mostly) starting in 2020 after I'd finished ToG. It wasn't immediate, it took me awhile to know I needed something. I listened to them while washing endless dishes in order to create the "alone time" that had stopped existing in my house at that point. I listened to them taking endless walks around the neighborhood for the same reason, my little post-wfh "happy hour" transition. I still get this sort of sense memory of where i was walking, in what seasons, when different plot points where happening.
This is exactly how I'm reading them now! Audiobook while choring and creating a bit of space from the chaos of the house, and I SAW A BAT swooping through the night sky as I walked one of my dogs while deep in book three. I've never only listened to fantasy before - I don't have physical copies of the books and don't plan on getting them. The audio to transport while combatting the mundanity of life is perf for me.
I absolutely devoured ACOTAR, Crescent City, and Fourth Wing. It's been such a delightful ride these last few months and I'm digging the internet commentary (so so many subreddits). I think some of the critiques are true. CC3 desperately needed more editing. The books aren't deep, but they are FUN.
I don't know how to articulate this better so here it goes. Many of these romantasy books (the uber popular ones at least) were written by conventionally attractive, middle class, straight white ladies for other conventionally attractive, middle class, straight white ladies. In the books they play out the same white woman romance fantasies that have been romance fantasing for years - independence (but still within the patriarchy), sexy times (with a straight hot man who knows how foreplay works), money (but not a job), etc. But this time with pointy ears.
And I'm not mad! Cuz deep down, when the world is mean, sometimes my fantasy is to be a conventionally attractive, middle class, straight white lady. And since I can't be in real life, I like to read about it in a way that doesn't make me feel like the who I am in reality is less than.
When people say the books are bad, I want to ask, “…bad at what?” What do you think they are trying to do, and why do you assume they are trying to do that thing? (Haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but excited to!)
I’m a fan and a preacher of the cult of fae smut. But! How the eff did an editor not full ban “unleashed”? Or “every” or “pure”? Pure male? Pure predator? Unleashedunlesshedunleashed. The writing is crap. Another beloved series that makes me get all defensive as described above is Laurie R. King’s Mary Russell series which has zero hotness and zero sex and is so flippin’ sad because of it but the writing is so much better. I want King and Maas to collaborate. Maas gets to add sex for Sherlock and Mary and King gets to delete adjectives and swap verbs.
From Josh Gondelman's newsletter this week: "So often we get mad because things are a bad version of something they aren’t, rather than giving them credit for being pretty good at what they are."
I think the trope of "enemies to lovers" is known to satisfy time and again, but Book #2 taught us that "lovers to enemies" can be equally thrilling (and unfortunately, highly relatable). I felt like such a sucker reading Book 2!!! It's always fun for an author to truly catch you off guard. I do remember reading the first few chapters of Book #1 and rolling my eyes, though. I was like, "Ok Beauty & The Beast, we've heard this one before, wrap it up." How foolish I was! Such a fun journey - SJM repeatedly forces you to discard your favorite character in favor of someone juicier. Each book has you viewing at previous ones like you would a highschool relationship - why was I so into that? They feel juvenille and one-dimensional. If I can somehow like Elain better than Nesta, these books will actually be magic!
I read all of SJM's first series, initially out of curiosity of what the hell the ruckus was about, and then because it was a train wreck my curiosity refused to let me look away from. I haven't felt compelled to read any of her other books. So, with that context:
1. There are so many other sexy fantasy books out there that handle literally all of the gross parts of SJM's books better. My highest recommendation is for Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey.
2. There are SO MANY gross parts of these books. AHP hit on some big ones, but also - the handling of race and queerness, the ways that appearance is so overwhelmingly important and reliant on Western standards of beauty.
3. The dynamics depicted ultimately serve to uphold existing cultural notions. Sure, expecting better sex is great, but when that comes wrapped up with men who have out of control possessiveness, it's still just the patriarchy.
Ultimately I don't know what the solution is. I'd love for the publishing industry to be/do better - actually require big authors to respond to edits, not throw the biggest marketing budget at things that are just rehashes of what's already a hit and which is problematic (but not overtly enough to get cancelled over). I'd love for SJM to actually listen to what her critics have to say, because I do think at the core she actually is solid at plot and worldbuilding. I'd love for discoverability to be so much better, so that folks branch out and away. I'd love for sexuality to not be so taboo that people feel they can only talk about the sexy books that are already in the public consciousness.
The point about only being able to talk about sexy books that are already in the public consciousness is such a good one - it’s as if it legitimizes it
YES to Kushiel’s Dart! That book got me through April 2020. Your point about us only being comfortable with sexy books in the public consciousness is so relevant for that one, too -- it’s the book I most often point friends towards after they finish ACOTAR, but there’s something about the cover and premise that feels “too” romance smut to most of them, even though the writing, world-building, characters, and sex are so much more sophisticated than ACOTAR (that’s not a taste judgment on ACOTAR, because I do absolutely love those books).
I have... feelings about the Kushiel series though. It's problematic in its own way, specifically the grooming of children into sex work. And Book 3 was pretty damn traumatizing for me, tbh.
+1 for the Kushiels Dart series! I read it forever ago but I still think about it on a regular basis. Some great world building and top notch political intrigue!
Kushiel's Dart! So good! Kind of a challenge to recommend to others since there's big caveats, but was such a great starting point for thinking about my own sexuality since I discovered these during my first relationship/late teens, early twenties
Ok I’m gonna preface this by saying I love fantasy and romantasy and read a lot of both, so this is not coming from some sort of snobby/hierarchical view. But when I was trying to explain ACOTAR to a friend so she could decide if she wanted to read them, I said “I think they’re pretty bad, but also I read them all in a week, one after the other.”
Most of my feelings about the series can be summed up as the “compels me, though” gif from Knives Out
Yes, exactly. And as someone who reads a lot of romance and fantasy - there's a whole world of hot, female-centered sex scenes! And series that switch main characters; in fact, that's standard in romance. Granted, spending that many books on one character and then switching is unusual. But I'm a little puzzled why this series in particular broke through to the mainstream, especially when the features that people give as justification for why they like them exist in so many other genre series.
The closest I have gotten to explaining why ACOTAR (and the Maasverse more generally) compels me was when I was talking to a friend who I watched RIVERDALE with, and we realized that they kind of... do something similar? Beautiful people wearing beautiful clothes, constant escalation of the plot, new lore reveals that turn things upside down, all of which makes me want to keep watching / reading in the moment to find out WHAT HAPPENS. But then on reflection, I mostly remember the FEELING, the compulsion, more than the events.
I remember feeling the same way about SCANDAL, a little, but it has been years.
So, I'm going to do a thing here that I usually hate as a librarian and generalize a whole lot about book categories, but here goes. I read a lot of YA in addition to adult books, and I think part of why these are so compelling is because they are written like YA with adult themes and relationships thrown in. In fact, in the library where I work (and a lot of libraries) ACOTAR is shelved in the YA section. YA is often written in a way that gives a sense of immediacy and emotional high stakes that isn't as present in adult books - unless they are thrillers (like Scandal, which is a show I know, but same concept). That draws you in deeper and makes you want to keep turning the page, even where a book that is arguably better written might not do the same.
Yes to all this, and I also wonder if that combination of compulsion and fantasy is why so many of us turn to the Maasverse at times when we are trying to reconnect with reading or struggling to read other types of material. We know we can count on them to suck us in and hold us there, and that we'll be treated to all these good romantic, sexy feelings while we're there. Everyone at my office was reading The Covenant of Water earlier this year and I made a rule for myself that I had to finish it before I could read CC3. It's a lovely story, beautifully written, and I'm glad I read it. But it was a SLOG and I was miserable for a lot of it, fighting the urge to pick up my phone or watch a movie. CC3 was just as long, but I tore through it and had to set alarms to force myself to put it down and go to sleep. Reading the two books back to back like that just really made me think about how much romance and fantasy books have kept me reading at times when it would have been easier to reach for my phone and scroll, and maybe that's fine!
Yes, compulsion is a great word! It keeps you reading/watching rven when you’re not sure why. It’s something more or different than pure enjoyment, although obviously that’s part of it!
I honestly give the cover designs massive, massive credit for the breakthrough (lots of reasons rooted in the stories themselves too) but honestly those covers are just a stroke of genius for being able to float between the YA, adult, adult general fiction, adult genre fiction categories. They're gorgeous, they stand out, they work on multiple levels, they look "mature" or "serious" enough (acknowledging that plays into some taste hierarchy issues mentioned here, but, i'm sure it also sells more that way.) I know cover designs have generally moved in this direction, but these still have this really interesting retro spin that would speak more to adults who can recognize a nostalgic nod.
can't you imagine our pal Midjourney cassian with a dramatically shredded shirt and flowing locks, fabio style? or like ... the very classic YA ToG covers? These could covers could be popular history! Literary fiction! A poetry anthology! WHO KNOWS?
There definitely is something about ACOTAR, though! I usually don’t finish books I think are that bad, let alone the whole series. Especially when I know there are plenty of other books that will scratch a similar itch.
There really is some elusive quality that captures both people who wouldn’t ordinarily read the genre AND people who love the genre and know there’s better stuff out there. I’m excited to listen to the podcast ep to see if AHP and her guest can pin it down!
Yes! That’s an interesting point. The heat and build-up and female pleasure are in a lot of romances. Maybe people were really in the mood for fairies and something page-turning and immersive?
SO true. I feel like the wizened crone at the crossroads with how often I say "ok you realized fantasy is fun, finally? Want to read some that's well written? Here you go--" and send people off with recs.
Possibly the fastest I’ve ever clicked on any newsletter. Thank you for treating this as something worthy of both admiration and critique! For anyone else who wants to make this their whole personality for a bit but thinks five books (and counting) aren’t enough: SJM has two other fae fantasy series and they collectively get a little Into the Faerieverse
same here! A friend pushed CC1 on me right before CC2 came out, I read both, didn’t understand the significance of [redacted spoiler], she made me pick up ACOTAR, I devoured them and reread THAT scene in CC2 and went full lore detective. It was nice to have a little low-stakes obsession in the midst of the pandemic
Everyone's points above have been interesting, and I agree with a lot of what has been said. I've read and re-read all of Sarah J Maas's series over the years. I think there's a space for a lot of the criticism of the work, as there should be. At the same time, when I see the valid criticism, I often feel defense of her work. I'm not sure why. Maybe it is because these books helped me get through a lot of health issues, and scary personal situations over the years. Maybe it is because I have been trying to write a fantasy book of my own for some time and I'm imagining what it would be like for so many people to speak negatively about something you've written (not that those things aren't valid, but that so many people adding to the discourse forget that there is a human being behind this in the way they speak and write).
I tend to read (and write) to escape the current situation, whatever that may be. Fantasy worlds remind me that there are other ways of being, not in a sense of "these are versions of utopia we should work towards" but more like "wow, human imagination is fascinating and I'm not alone in themes of the various stories (both "good" and "bad") that I tell myself when I'm bored." Maas's books have, for the most part given me a blissful escape when I needed it and reignited my own love for reading and writing at times when I needed it.
At the same time, I ALSO feel so defensive about my own reading of her books. I feel embarrassed when I talk about these books with other people and sometimes lie when someone asks me what I'm reading. So much to think about.
Thanks AHP, I have never commented on a substack before and this is the one thread that broke the ice for me! Excited for the podcast.
I have found that I’ve gotten less defensive about my taste in books the further I’ve gone into my 40s. And less critical of other people’s too, even if it is absolutely as far from mine as is possible. I guess what I’m saying is, you may eventually not feel the need to lie about what you’re reading because you sincerely don’t care what the other person thinks it says about you. I haven’t quite gotten there but I’m getting closer like, every day :)
Ditto - it was my 40s that did this for me too. My sister used to joke about my beach reads, but one day I realized that my beach reads are her Hallmark movies and we just moved on. Why does it matter what someone else thinks of my choices in reading??
SAME. I used to feel so much embarrassment about reading “romance.” I wouldn’t read them on the subway. I probably only started re-reading them because I had a kindle so the covers weren’t an issue. But now I just have so much respect for the romance community. It’s a group of smart, funny, talented women who, for the most part, are inclusive and politically I
*politically like minded. The authors and fans interact, the authors celebrate other authors’ work, and all around they just seem like decent people. It’s not great in all parts of the community but there’s more good than I see in a lot of other spaces.
Oh wow, this is when two separate, yet amazing worlds in my life collide!! Woo hoo!! I have been reading fantasy since I was a teen, some romance too, but mostly fantasy. I am not mad at the blending of the two genres creating "romantasy," it is incredibly fun and immersive.
I have been reading SJM since the beginning, and read ACOTAR as each book came out, the wait between each release was agonizing. All the points you have brought up are spot on. In regards to purity and first loves, - I cannot stress enough how incredibly revolutionary SJM's depiction of a non-virgin FMC who sleeps with more than one man was at the time it came out. When I first read it I was like, YES!! FINALLY!! I think it's important to remember that fantasy fiction has largely been dominated by male authors and the male gaze, it's only been in recent years that female authors have gained any traction much to the irritation of many male readers. You should see how these books are trashed in the larger sci-fi/-fantasy online groups that are dominated by men. That's not to say there haven't been incredible female authors, but men dominate the space, and I love that SJM has carved such a large part of it out for herself and women readers.
Regarding the pregnancy trope - she had two kids while writing this series, and I tend to think that influenced her writing. I also had a kid around the same time as one of her's was born and could totally see why and how some of that experience would trickle into the world. I'm so glad you love the series, there is lots to unpack here and I can't wait to listen to the podcast!!!
One more comment to add regarding the representation of romance/sex in books, especially in fantasy. As many people have commented here, and elsewhere, there is often shame associated with loving romance in books. I have never understood why we should feel ashamed of appreciating and seeking out representations of acts of love, love is an inherently good thing. On the flip side, rarely is violence in books called out. Traditional sci-fi fantasy novels written by men are FULL of extremely graphic, gory, and violent scenes, and yet, these books are often lauded (Game of Thrones by George RR Martin, The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie, etc ) and no man is ever shamed for loving/endorsing/flaming the fandom of these types of books. So love/sex is bad, and violent murder is ok. Sounds about right for our culture. Sigh.
I'm a bookseller at an independent bookstore and while I'm not typically a fantasy reader and haven't read Sarah Maas' books (yet), I absolutely LOVE how engaged and excited people are about this series, and how willing they are to talk about it and connect with others. When I'm at work, it's not uncommon for me to witness people who have never met before find out that they both read Sarah Maas, and then get deep into conversation about the books and characters. I've also had numerous readers of this series talk to me about how it got them through a hard time (such as an illness or recovery, a break-up, a big change in their life like moving to a new place) and how much they enjoyed the experience of reading these books.
I've been thinking lately about how that immersive experience of reading is really what often what hook people into being readers. Looking for the recreation of that experience, of getting totally pulled into a story, is one of the things that keeps people coming back for more. It's a hard thing to describe, because it seems like some books seem more likely to pull us into that richness more fully, and it also often needs to have that magic overlap with right book / right time / right person. It's a special thing!
As a long-time romance reader, my friends and I have constantly joked that all of Nora Roberts' heroes and heroines are actually just painting Thomas Kinkade pieces. I fully believe Feyre is part of the Thomas Kinkade Romance School of Art for Heroes Who Can't Paint Good.
I am a DEVOUT reader of fanfiction (AHP, have you read Manacled yet, as per Melody's suggestion??) and I think the thing I find both perplexing and compelling about ACOTAR is that the books are like...iterative fanfiction of themselves? Fanfiction so often serves as authorial wish fulfillment-- I want these characters to pine for each other, be thrust into this ridiculous situation, and also look hot, etc. without having to stick to the prescriptions of what a book is "supposed" to do. And ACOTAR kind of reads like SJM is doing that too! It's so hard to pin down but so predictable at the same time? Idk, still chewing on this thesis.
I like fanfiction. I'm totally into writing stories as a way of commenting on/exploring other stories. But I think it's a completely different medium than published fiction, and I do NOT want my published fiction to feel like fanfiction. I think a lot of my problems with the most popular genre novels of the last few years has come from the fact that they feel like fanfiction.
100%!! That's pretty much the only explanation for the existence of the novella too (the holiday/midwinter/basic white girl cozy season one; I read it twice, lol).
Yes, to this! I think it's why I feel like they're "bad" at times? They're perhaps a little too shallow and a little too perfect. I honestly had predicted at the end of ACOTAR that Feyre would get a boosted power of one court, and it would be Winter which would thematically represent her incompatibility with Tamlin (and tie back to when he picked the winter forest as his favorite painting of her), and her inner brutality.
Buuut then she just becomes the fae avatar and gets ALL the powers and just as good or better as these 500 year old fae within 6 months. It's such a fanfiction-y thing to do.
As someone who reads an absurd amount of historical romance and a more moderate amount of romantasy, I think it’s fascinating how patriarchal society and relationships (especially when you have an “alpha” hero) are handled in most *modern* historicals as opposed to these popular romantasy series. In many ways the romantasy genre feels more in line with historicals of old (ie the 80s and early 90s) with the territorial/dominant/possessive qualities of the hero being used as a stand in for an emotional connection. I think it helps that most romances make an effort to switch between perspectives more consistently so that you can see how each character is changing as the relationship develops. I start to resent books where the author doesn’t do this and one of the parties remains mostly a mystery and the first ACOTAR was this for me.
YES. I was saying this elsethread--the things that we no longer accept in historical or contemporary romances, we can handwave in fantasy romance as ~worldbuilding~
No judgment in this. But I think that's what's going on.
And I could not agree more about the importance of dual POV. To me, it’s not a romance without it. It feels like 1/2 a book. I also associate the single POV/female only POV with “women’s fiction” which is like watered down romance.
Oooh yes. Half a book is absolutely how I would characterize it! I’ve realized that what I care about in a romance is not the HEA for the heroine, but the HEA for the couple. That means that I need to see inside both of their heads to understand how being together has made them both happier and stronger.
On the rare occasions I encounter someone who scoffs at romance, I always explain that a good romance shows what a healthy relationship looks like. I almost feel like couples therapists should assign some of them as homework for their clients.
Very much the same. I care about how the relationship develops internally for the MCs. So only getting one side of that development feels very lopsided.
For a dip into historical, try reading Mary Balogh’s books (the Bedwyns, the Wescotts, ravenswood… so many families so the world gets built and you don’t have to do heavy lifting from book to book). It may spoil you for other writers if you like emotional/angsty connections. Bridgerton was my gateway into the genre, but Mary Balogh’s series are the best (followed by Laura Kinsale who feels more literary romance).
My very favorite historical romance writer is Lisa Kleypas. Her writing is excellent and her characters are SO likable. You also get books that connect to each other and so that makes it so satisfying!
I’ve never tried historical, but I’m open to it! I liked the level of spice in ACOTAR. I am less excited about a sex scene on page 1 and more excited about a slow build.
Historical— There are SO many good historical. It’s hard to narrow it down. This list is woefully inadequate and very hetero, white lady centric.
Julia Quinn (Bridgerton’s if that’s your thing.) Pretty tame. I enjoyed the series and was one that eased me back into romance.
Sarah McClean (especially her earlier books). More of a modern historical.
Lord of Scoundrels—classic (old school) historical by Loretta Chase
Contemporary
Everything Kate Clayborn has written
Select Tessa Bailey. Her earlier stuff was spicier but also more uneven. As she’s gotten more popular I feel like she’s toned down the spice.
Eve Dangerfield—Silver Sisters Ink series and others. Pretty high spice.
Eve Dangerfield and Tessa Bailey write a book together (consensual stalker situation) that I really enjoyed— Captivated
Penny Reid (she’s created her own quirky contemporary world and has several interconnected series. I enjoyed the Winston Bros series but found other books a little tedious at times. Could be a little twee for some.
Kristen Callihan—Idol (and entire VIP series)
Bad Neighbor by M. O’Keefe. I really enjoyed this one.
Romantasy—my list here is shorter because I’ve just gotten into to this a bit more.
Ruby Dixon—Ice Planet Barbarian, Taken to Voraxia series and the Dark City Omega series.
Fourth Wing ((I’ve started this but can’t vouch for the ending)
Amanda Bouchet Nightchaser series (Space Romance. It’s been a while but I think they are all human?)
So funny you say Tessa Bailey toned down her spice bc I felt like her newest book was like startling in the dominance spice level, and I actually couldn't really get into it. But totally agree that her books vary in space level.
And I just read Georgie All Along by Kate Clayborn and it was *chef's kiss*
Interesting insight! I cut my teeth on historical romance and it’s been interesting to see that sub genre change so much. It does seem like the alpha/fated mates theme comes up more often in romantasy. I will definitely have to think about this more.
I pretty much only read romance. I enjoyed it as a young/new adult but read other “more edifying” things too. I was a huge reader. Then life/work/kids happened, and I stopped reading for pleasure for a long time. When I felt called to restart I “eased” back into it with romance which I remembered brought me so much joy and laughs, which I really needed.
But I found I was so stressed and emotionally fragile that I didn’t enjoy the emotional sucker punches of a lot of other genres so I’ve stuck to romance.
During very stressful times when I was struggling, romance has been like a port of safety that gave me a place to retreat from the world for a little bit. I’m immensely grateful to the genre. And fantasy romance is just that much more of a relief because when the world is so different it’s just that much easier to lose yourself in it.
All of this is to say ACOTAR is right up my alley and I wanted to LOVE it but I abandoned book 1 about 1/2 way through because it’s was so slow and boring. I wanted the immersive, sexy joy of it but honestly I’m spoiled because when it comes to sexy fantasy the romance genre honestly does it much better.
But I’m still jealous because I’d really like the ACOTAR experience. In light of this thread I will try again and have the book on hold.
I feel like the fantasy/monster romance category is just exploding right now and I’m looking to read more great fantasy/romance (I just learned the word “romantasy”). For anyone interested I’d recommend Ruby Dixon:
Ice Planet Barbarians, by Ruby Dixon. Bonkers is the only way to describe this series but it’s a fun ride. Has a “fated mates” aspect and involves blue aliens who are just the most devoted, grateful partners. This series helped me get thru the pandemic.
Ruby Dixon is/was a self-published author whose books spread through the romance community on IG (and prob tiktok too). It was like a fun, little fire that spread from account to account. Her books were too “out there” for mainstream publishing until just recently. Her books have now been picked up for distribution by a couple of main stream publishers because they are really popular (and perhaps books like ACOTAR have opened up the genre?)
Dark City Omega, also by Ruby Dixon—this is a good entry point to the “omega-verse” (which is also bonkers—do you know what “knotting” is? I had to look it up 😬). It’s another approach to “fated mates” but in a darker, crueler world than IPB.
I have so many recs! I’m very particular about world building and dialogue.
Tonight, I Burn by Katharine J Adams. The thorn witches have to burn each night to help escort people to the underworld. One night our heroine’s sister doesn’t come home so she goes to look for her. She ends up in a polyamorous relationship with a prophet and a guy in the underworld.
A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane. Hands down the best romance I’ve ever read with amazing world building. Enemies-(as in I want to kill you but instead will marriage of convenience you for vengeance)-to-lovers road trip with so much character growth.
Consort of Fire by Kit Rocha. F/F/M dragon god shifter. Before this book had a title, the authors called it “the horny dragon book.” The princess is sent to be consort to the dragon god (he hasn’t had one for 100 years, thus the horniness) and brings her handmaiden with whom she’s already in a loving relationship. She’s also there to kill him. The dragon god is also very into consent culture.
A Broken Blade by Melissa Blair. Definitely has self-published vibes, but the world building is good and the heroine is a good character. She’s been conscripted as the evil king’s head spy/assassin in a world where everyone of mixed race/non-humans is enslaved or killed. The author is Native and there is a lot of interrogation of colonization, slavery, and appropriation of sacred crops into addictive substances for profit.
YES! I know authors are people and I'm extending grace to everyone but HOT DAMN where is A Dance of Smoke and Steel?? (Also I follow your reviews on Goodreads and they're so great!)
Re: quitting ACOTAR halfway through - definitely consider giving it another shot! I haaaate when people say something "gets good" halfway through a series - why on earth should I have to read MULTIPLE BOOKS to start enjoying something? Life is short! So I don't say this lightly, but the payoff is worth it in this series.
I absolutely turned my nose up at ACOTAR when I first came across it in 2019, eventually got it on Libby only to deem it boring/too much of an on-the-nose Beauty and the Beast retelling and quit halfway through in 2021, and then in 2023 I finally read the whole thing and fell deep into the rabbit hole and read all 15 books by Sarah J Maas in a month or two. It really really doesn't stay as predictable and dull as it seems at first; it takes an unexpected turn about 3/4 of the way through and from then on it's a full rollercoaster ride, but you need the background. I will also say - one of my favorite things about all of SJM's books is she really writes with re-readers in mind. It's the kind of series that I was tempted to immediately re-read after I finished it just to catch all the little bits of foreshadowing and Easter eggs that I missed the first time. You'll think the story is one thing, only to learn a book later that you were missing a crucial puzzle piece that changes your perspective on everything, and she pulls this off multiple times in multiple series that connect in a multiverse!
Also - yes to Ruby Dixon! IPB has somehow become the reassuring cozy series I read when I need to relax, love those earnest wholesome blue dudes. :D
I love romance too. It's the perfect genre during tough times because the protagonists are always guaranteed a happy ending, so it's much less stressful to read.
ACOTAR was tough to read because until, IMO, book 2, it doesn't really get "fun" on the romance side with banter and lightness. Which makes sense given the setting of Book 1, it's sort of a hard-earned victory and is fairly dark. I still enjoyed it though!
Super excited to see the newsletter this morning! I also really appreciate diving into ACOTAR since this is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about the past year - my best friend has gone headfirst into ACOTAR and the SJM extended universe. She's successfully gotten a TON of friends into it as well (which I love for them!). I've struggled to get through the series - I pushed through books 1 and 2 because I love her and trust her, and am now stuck in early book 3. She and I have had a lot of conversations along these lines and it's been interesting to try and figure out why it just doesn't click for me the same way it has for her and so many others. I think part of it is because I'm a longtime fantasy and historical romance reader, and many of the romantasy series I've tried feel like they let me down for one or the other. Either the worldbuilding is so thin and just ~vibes~ that I'm left frustrated about how things work and how hand-wavey some of it feels (and I do love a series that feels lived in and well thought out with a good dose of political intrigue), or the romance is predictable and somewhat bland compared to some of the historical romance authors I love (Courtney Milan, Sarah MacLean, etc.). We end a lot of our conversations with "YMMV" (your mileage may vary) - a good reminder to ourselves that each of us has stuff that does or doesn't click and there's no judgment attached to that.
Quick personal favorite recs: I'll second Freya Marske's The Last Binding Trilogy. Also, T. Kingfisher's The Saint of Steel series (angsty paladins find love while being very competent! the protagonists are adults who have creaky knees! one of the paladins knits in his spare time!), the Captive Prince series by C.S. Pacat (true enemies to lovers), and A Taste of Gold and Iron by Alexandra Rowland.
I wish T. Kingfisher was as well known as SJM! She is astoundingly talented. I want to add a massive trigger warning for rape and enslavement for the Captive Prince series.
I love Saints of Steel (recommended on CS!) but I felt like the plot got a little tired. Like, all the soldier characters are convinced there's something wrong with them, and the internal monologue is a light of insecurities. That being said, I'll happily ready the rest of the series as it's released! Middle-aged protagonists, knitters, fantastic banter - she's speaking my language!
I went through the same thing! A friend of mine got really into ACOTAR and the Fourth Wing series so I gave them both a try and they just did not click for me. I did like the last ACOTAR book starring Nesta more than the rest of the series but I also thought she was the most interesting character from book one so YMMV. +1 to the T. Kingfisher and Alexandra Rowland recs!
Just want to say how much I relate to the “crappy taste hierarchies” issue. I did an honours degree in English over 20 years ago and I’m *still* trying to stop seeing literature as a pyramid, with the classics and poetry near the top, and to start seeing it as more of a buffet—as in an impressively massive spread with no “bad” choices, but rather something there for every taste, mood, time of day. I can’t say ACOTAR is something I want to dig into right now but who knows? Maybe someday I will.
Former English major here, too! Looking back on my degree, I feel like I’ve read every version of the male coming of age novel, the male existential reckoning novel, the male adventure novel, and then the every woman getting punished for having sex or desiring more from life novel, that I don’t find I need to read classics/high brow literature anymore, nor do I put them in the category of the great American novels anymore. Perhaps I’ve gone too far in the other direction, but these days if I read fiction at all, the women protagonists are having the great adventures, the great sex, and the great coming of age saga. Screw the English degree.
A few years ago I decided that until I felt like stopping, my reading diet henceforward would consist of Female Badasses Doing Badass Things And Having A Badass Time. I did this for at least 18 months. (This included a lot of fantasy, because nonfiction is unsurprisingly light on these!) And it shifted something deep inside me. After that I looked up at the actual real world around me and said with even more disgust than before, "What the hell is going on here." I now have even less patience for male-centric worlds, in fiction or in real life. But now that I've read all those beautiful and powerful female stories, my "zero patience" feels like "y'all, that shit is dumb," not "how will we ever change it." I know how we will change it. I can imagine what it looks like when women have just as many great stories, because I've read them.
Another English major here. It's not a conscious decision, but I really tend to read 90% female authors, and I....don't care. I have a few male authors I make exceptions for but the more you read books where women are written as dimensional people, the harder it is to go back!
Also a former English major. I never really thought about my tendency to primarily read female authors as a result of that before, but maybe there is something to that.
So much of "classic lit" especially is by men, so that's who gets taught. I think it's getting better as the decades go by, but even when I was in undergrad in the early aughts there was so much male gaze inherent in an English lit degree.
So interesting. I do this too and recently read my first male author fiction in years for book club. His depiction of the women’s characters was so incredibly flat and unbelievable. It really stood out to me.
It’s not really fair but the few times I’ve considering reading outside romance in the past couple of years, it’s only been to read memoirs or other stories written by women. I just have no desire to read a book written by a man.
I remember being judged by the English lit majors during my undergrad because I was heavily into Jane Austen. Jokes on them now! The early August especially were full of debates about whether fiction that centered female relationships and desires was less literary.
I totally get this. I dropped out of a MA in English over 15 years years ago, I'm an avid life long reader, and one of my jobs is working as a bookseller. As a student and young person, I read books by women, for sure, and was very into feminist theory, but even so, mostly I was expected to read ALL THE MEN. I mean, really ALL THE MEN.
I read 75 - 100 books a year, mostly very current books because I work in the bookselling industry, and you know what? Maybe 5-8 were written by men. In particular, if I'm reading fiction, I'm mostly interested in women and/or queer-identifying writers. I have a limited number of books I can read a year, and male writers are no longer a priority. Sorry dudes.
I still laugh at myself for telling a former (male) roommate, who was in the process of writing a novel himself, "yea I just don't think I can read books written by men anymore" and he was like, "fair". I think I had just talked his ear off about a terrible book I read about a terrible male protagonist obliviously walking into a divorce.
Yes to all of this! I read so many (white, hetero) male stories as an English major and I was so wrapped up in the hierarchies of quality in literature. It took years to understand how much of my literary snobbery was the patriarchy having it's way with me. I read mostly female authors now and in a variety of genres and it's SO MUCH BETTER.
Yeah, this, exactly. Like, personally nothing could sound less appealing and I will never pick up one of these books BUT that is also true about plenty of "good" literature too? And that doesn't mean a ton of people can't/shouldn't get genuine pleasure from reading them? There are soooooo many books in the world, there's something for everything, that's a feature not a bug!
Thank you for the notes about how we talk about ACOTAR / being instinctively defensive. I read these books in the summer of 2021 as we were just starting to emerge from COVID but still having an exceptionally rough time. They got me back into reading for pleasure - I hadn’t wanted to stay up all night finishing a book since I was a teenager. There’s something to be said for embracing things that give us sheer delight.
Sarah - there is SO something to be said for embracing things that give us sheer delight. What the heck are we doing in life if we aren't doing that??
I also don't prescribe to crappy taste hierarchies so why it is so hard to admit to liking love stories or magic stories or love stories with magic? Why do I have to justify it? Its complicated but, for many of us, I suspect it has something to do with not wanting to be seen as dumb. Because smart women (and people) have to read "smart" books, right?
My eyes lit up when I saw this in my inbox this morning. I love ACOTAR and I love the cultural phenomenon it has become. I love that it caused me to start reading fantasy again and to start reading romance as well. And to slowly - still a work in progress - be ok telling people what I like to read. It gave me the permission I thought I needed.
Exactly! I love these books, but I still catch myself doing the same thing Anne describes with trying to justify myself or make sure people know that I also read “serious” books. I’m trying to be less judgmental of myself and other people - it probably has to do with the “chick lit” classification and how condescending that has been for so long.
Beautifully, said. I feel exactly the same.
Also I would be very down for a collection of Feyre painting TikToks (probably my favorites after the Suriel with all the hot tea ones)!
The Suriel ones make me CACKLE
I read them (as audiobooks mostly) starting in 2020 after I'd finished ToG. It wasn't immediate, it took me awhile to know I needed something. I listened to them while washing endless dishes in order to create the "alone time" that had stopped existing in my house at that point. I listened to them taking endless walks around the neighborhood for the same reason, my little post-wfh "happy hour" transition. I still get this sort of sense memory of where i was walking, in what seasons, when different plot points where happening.
This is exactly how I'm reading them now! Audiobook while choring and creating a bit of space from the chaos of the house, and I SAW A BAT swooping through the night sky as I walked one of my dogs while deep in book three. I've never only listened to fantasy before - I don't have physical copies of the books and don't plan on getting them. The audio to transport while combatting the mundanity of life is perf for me.
I absolutely devoured ACOTAR, Crescent City, and Fourth Wing. It's been such a delightful ride these last few months and I'm digging the internet commentary (so so many subreddits). I think some of the critiques are true. CC3 desperately needed more editing. The books aren't deep, but they are FUN.
I don't know how to articulate this better so here it goes. Many of these romantasy books (the uber popular ones at least) were written by conventionally attractive, middle class, straight white ladies for other conventionally attractive, middle class, straight white ladies. In the books they play out the same white woman romance fantasies that have been romance fantasing for years - independence (but still within the patriarchy), sexy times (with a straight hot man who knows how foreplay works), money (but not a job), etc. But this time with pointy ears.
And I'm not mad! Cuz deep down, when the world is mean, sometimes my fantasy is to be a conventionally attractive, middle class, straight white lady. And since I can't be in real life, I like to read about it in a way that doesn't make me feel like the who I am in reality is less than.
Absolutely this
Money, but not a job... so accurate!
"But this time with pointy ears."
DYING.
When people say the books are bad, I want to ask, “…bad at what?” What do you think they are trying to do, and why do you assume they are trying to do that thing? (Haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but excited to!)
BAD AT WHAT indeed
I’m a fan and a preacher of the cult of fae smut. But! How the eff did an editor not full ban “unleashed”? Or “every” or “pure”? Pure male? Pure predator? Unleashedunlesshedunleashed. The writing is crap. Another beloved series that makes me get all defensive as described above is Laurie R. King’s Mary Russell series which has zero hotness and zero sex and is so flippin’ sad because of it but the writing is so much better. I want King and Maas to collaborate. Maas gets to add sex for Sherlock and Mary and King gets to delete adjectives and swap verbs.
From Josh Gondelman's newsletter this week: "So often we get mad because things are a bad version of something they aren’t, rather than giving them credit for being pretty good at what they are."
Large scale battles and balance in ensemble scenes. And that is hardly a reason to quit.
I think the trope of "enemies to lovers" is known to satisfy time and again, but Book #2 taught us that "lovers to enemies" can be equally thrilling (and unfortunately, highly relatable). I felt like such a sucker reading Book 2!!! It's always fun for an author to truly catch you off guard. I do remember reading the first few chapters of Book #1 and rolling my eyes, though. I was like, "Ok Beauty & The Beast, we've heard this one before, wrap it up." How foolish I was! Such a fun journey - SJM repeatedly forces you to discard your favorite character in favor of someone juicier. Each book has you viewing at previous ones like you would a highschool relationship - why was I so into that? They feel juvenille and one-dimensional. If I can somehow like Elain better than Nesta, these books will actually be magic!
Truly, am I gonna think Nesta is SO BORING now? Probably only if she gets pregnant tbh
I hope not! 😰 I adore Nesta. I would hate to see her get the same Feyre treatment
I read all of SJM's first series, initially out of curiosity of what the hell the ruckus was about, and then because it was a train wreck my curiosity refused to let me look away from. I haven't felt compelled to read any of her other books. So, with that context:
1. There are so many other sexy fantasy books out there that handle literally all of the gross parts of SJM's books better. My highest recommendation is for Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey.
2. There are SO MANY gross parts of these books. AHP hit on some big ones, but also - the handling of race and queerness, the ways that appearance is so overwhelmingly important and reliant on Western standards of beauty.
3. The dynamics depicted ultimately serve to uphold existing cultural notions. Sure, expecting better sex is great, but when that comes wrapped up with men who have out of control possessiveness, it's still just the patriarchy.
Ultimately I don't know what the solution is. I'd love for the publishing industry to be/do better - actually require big authors to respond to edits, not throw the biggest marketing budget at things that are just rehashes of what's already a hit and which is problematic (but not overtly enough to get cancelled over). I'd love for SJM to actually listen to what her critics have to say, because I do think at the core she actually is solid at plot and worldbuilding. I'd love for discoverability to be so much better, so that folks branch out and away. I'd love for sexuality to not be so taboo that people feel they can only talk about the sexy books that are already in the public consciousness.
The point about only being able to talk about sexy books that are already in the public consciousness is such a good one - it’s as if it legitimizes it
YES to Kushiel’s Dart! That book got me through April 2020. Your point about us only being comfortable with sexy books in the public consciousness is so relevant for that one, too -- it’s the book I most often point friends towards after they finish ACOTAR, but there’s something about the cover and premise that feels “too” romance smut to most of them, even though the writing, world-building, characters, and sex are so much more sophisticated than ACOTAR (that’s not a taste judgment on ACOTAR, because I do absolutely love those books).
I have... feelings about the Kushiel series though. It's problematic in its own way, specifically the grooming of children into sex work. And Book 3 was pretty damn traumatizing for me, tbh.
Yeah, I read these years before I read ACOTAR and they are great, but much darker in every way. Plenty of problematic themes abound.
+1 for the Kushiels Dart series! I read it forever ago but I still think about it on a regular basis. Some great world building and top notch political intrigue!
Ooh, going to try Kushiel’s Dart. Thank you!
Kushiel's Dart! So good! Kind of a challenge to recommend to others since there's big caveats, but was such a great starting point for thinking about my own sexuality since I discovered these during my first relationship/late teens, early twenties
You articulated so many of my issues with the book, thank you!
Loved Kushiel's Dart!
Ok I’m gonna preface this by saying I love fantasy and romantasy and read a lot of both, so this is not coming from some sort of snobby/hierarchical view. But when I was trying to explain ACOTAR to a friend so she could decide if she wanted to read them, I said “I think they’re pretty bad, but also I read them all in a week, one after the other.”
Most of my feelings about the series can be summed up as the “compels me, though” gif from Knives Out
Yes, exactly. And as someone who reads a lot of romance and fantasy - there's a whole world of hot, female-centered sex scenes! And series that switch main characters; in fact, that's standard in romance. Granted, spending that many books on one character and then switching is unusual. But I'm a little puzzled why this series in particular broke through to the mainstream, especially when the features that people give as justification for why they like them exist in so many other genre series.
The closest I have gotten to explaining why ACOTAR (and the Maasverse more generally) compels me was when I was talking to a friend who I watched RIVERDALE with, and we realized that they kind of... do something similar? Beautiful people wearing beautiful clothes, constant escalation of the plot, new lore reveals that turn things upside down, all of which makes me want to keep watching / reading in the moment to find out WHAT HAPPENS. But then on reflection, I mostly remember the FEELING, the compulsion, more than the events.
I remember feeling the same way about SCANDAL, a little, but it has been years.
So, I'm going to do a thing here that I usually hate as a librarian and generalize a whole lot about book categories, but here goes. I read a lot of YA in addition to adult books, and I think part of why these are so compelling is because they are written like YA with adult themes and relationships thrown in. In fact, in the library where I work (and a lot of libraries) ACOTAR is shelved in the YA section. YA is often written in a way that gives a sense of immediacy and emotional high stakes that isn't as present in adult books - unless they are thrillers (like Scandal, which is a show I know, but same concept). That draws you in deeper and makes you want to keep turning the page, even where a book that is arguably better written might not do the same.
Yes to all this, and I also wonder if that combination of compulsion and fantasy is why so many of us turn to the Maasverse at times when we are trying to reconnect with reading or struggling to read other types of material. We know we can count on them to suck us in and hold us there, and that we'll be treated to all these good romantic, sexy feelings while we're there. Everyone at my office was reading The Covenant of Water earlier this year and I made a rule for myself that I had to finish it before I could read CC3. It's a lovely story, beautifully written, and I'm glad I read it. But it was a SLOG and I was miserable for a lot of it, fighting the urge to pick up my phone or watch a movie. CC3 was just as long, but I tore through it and had to set alarms to force myself to put it down and go to sleep. Reading the two books back to back like that just really made me think about how much romance and fantasy books have kept me reading at times when it would have been easier to reach for my phone and scroll, and maybe that's fine!
Yes, compulsion is a great word! It keeps you reading/watching rven when you’re not sure why. It’s something more or different than pure enjoyment, although obviously that’s part of it!
I honestly give the cover designs massive, massive credit for the breakthrough (lots of reasons rooted in the stories themselves too) but honestly those covers are just a stroke of genius for being able to float between the YA, adult, adult general fiction, adult genre fiction categories. They're gorgeous, they stand out, they work on multiple levels, they look "mature" or "serious" enough (acknowledging that plays into some taste hierarchy issues mentioned here, but, i'm sure it also sells more that way.) I know cover designs have generally moved in this direction, but these still have this really interesting retro spin that would speak more to adults who can recognize a nostalgic nod.
this is a really great point
can't you imagine our pal Midjourney cassian with a dramatically shredded shirt and flowing locks, fabio style? or like ... the very classic YA ToG covers? These could covers could be popular history! Literary fiction! A poetry anthology! WHO KNOWS?
There definitely is something about ACOTAR, though! I usually don’t finish books I think are that bad, let alone the whole series. Especially when I know there are plenty of other books that will scratch a similar itch.
There really is some elusive quality that captures both people who wouldn’t ordinarily read the genre AND people who love the genre and know there’s better stuff out there. I’m excited to listen to the podcast ep to see if AHP and her guest can pin it down!
Yes! That’s an interesting point. The heat and build-up and female pleasure are in a lot of romances. Maybe people were really in the mood for fairies and something page-turning and immersive?
SO true. I feel like the wizened crone at the crossroads with how often I say "ok you realized fantasy is fun, finally? Want to read some that's well written? Here you go--" and send people off with recs.
Please share those here! I'm sure I'm not the only reader for whom ACOTAR was their first fantasy read.
Possibly the fastest I’ve ever clicked on any newsletter. Thank you for treating this as something worthy of both admiration and critique! For anyone else who wants to make this their whole personality for a bit but thinks five books (and counting) aren’t enough: SJM has two other fae fantasy series and they collectively get a little Into the Faerieverse
SAME I saw the subject line and said “YES!” out loud. 😂😂
Also I started with the first 2 Crescent City books and THEN read the whole of ACOTAR, which turned out to be an excellent move.
same here! A friend pushed CC1 on me right before CC2 came out, I read both, didn’t understand the significance of [redacted spoiler], she made me pick up ACOTAR, I devoured them and reread THAT scene in CC2 and went full lore detective. It was nice to have a little low-stakes obsession in the midst of the pandemic
HIGHLY recommend reading the Throne of Glass series if you want the full picture of all the lore 😉
That CC2 [redacted spoiler] scene! I was reading that book by myself in an Airbnb and said aloud, loudly, to myself, "OH SHIT."
SAME, I catapulted out of bed to read, lol.
Everyone's points above have been interesting, and I agree with a lot of what has been said. I've read and re-read all of Sarah J Maas's series over the years. I think there's a space for a lot of the criticism of the work, as there should be. At the same time, when I see the valid criticism, I often feel defense of her work. I'm not sure why. Maybe it is because these books helped me get through a lot of health issues, and scary personal situations over the years. Maybe it is because I have been trying to write a fantasy book of my own for some time and I'm imagining what it would be like for so many people to speak negatively about something you've written (not that those things aren't valid, but that so many people adding to the discourse forget that there is a human being behind this in the way they speak and write).
I tend to read (and write) to escape the current situation, whatever that may be. Fantasy worlds remind me that there are other ways of being, not in a sense of "these are versions of utopia we should work towards" but more like "wow, human imagination is fascinating and I'm not alone in themes of the various stories (both "good" and "bad") that I tell myself when I'm bored." Maas's books have, for the most part given me a blissful escape when I needed it and reignited my own love for reading and writing at times when I needed it.
At the same time, I ALSO feel so defensive about my own reading of her books. I feel embarrassed when I talk about these books with other people and sometimes lie when someone asks me what I'm reading. So much to think about.
Thanks AHP, I have never commented on a substack before and this is the one thread that broke the ice for me! Excited for the podcast.
I have found that I’ve gotten less defensive about my taste in books the further I’ve gone into my 40s. And less critical of other people’s too, even if it is absolutely as far from mine as is possible. I guess what I’m saying is, you may eventually not feel the need to lie about what you’re reading because you sincerely don’t care what the other person thinks it says about you. I haven’t quite gotten there but I’m getting closer like, every day :)
Ditto - it was my 40s that did this for me too. My sister used to joke about my beach reads, but one day I realized that my beach reads are her Hallmark movies and we just moved on. Why does it matter what someone else thinks of my choices in reading??
SAME. I used to feel so much embarrassment about reading “romance.” I wouldn’t read them on the subway. I probably only started re-reading them because I had a kindle so the covers weren’t an issue. But now I just have so much respect for the romance community. It’s a group of smart, funny, talented women who, for the most part, are inclusive and politically I
*politically like minded. The authors and fans interact, the authors celebrate other authors’ work, and all around they just seem like decent people. It’s not great in all parts of the community but there’s more good than I see in a lot of other spaces.
Oh wow, this is when two separate, yet amazing worlds in my life collide!! Woo hoo!! I have been reading fantasy since I was a teen, some romance too, but mostly fantasy. I am not mad at the blending of the two genres creating "romantasy," it is incredibly fun and immersive.
I have been reading SJM since the beginning, and read ACOTAR as each book came out, the wait between each release was agonizing. All the points you have brought up are spot on. In regards to purity and first loves, - I cannot stress enough how incredibly revolutionary SJM's depiction of a non-virgin FMC who sleeps with more than one man was at the time it came out. When I first read it I was like, YES!! FINALLY!! I think it's important to remember that fantasy fiction has largely been dominated by male authors and the male gaze, it's only been in recent years that female authors have gained any traction much to the irritation of many male readers. You should see how these books are trashed in the larger sci-fi/-fantasy online groups that are dominated by men. That's not to say there haven't been incredible female authors, but men dominate the space, and I love that SJM has carved such a large part of it out for herself and women readers.
Regarding the pregnancy trope - she had two kids while writing this series, and I tend to think that influenced her writing. I also had a kid around the same time as one of her's was born and could totally see why and how some of that experience would trickle into the world. I'm so glad you love the series, there is lots to unpack here and I can't wait to listen to the podcast!!!
One more comment to add regarding the representation of romance/sex in books, especially in fantasy. As many people have commented here, and elsewhere, there is often shame associated with loving romance in books. I have never understood why we should feel ashamed of appreciating and seeking out representations of acts of love, love is an inherently good thing. On the flip side, rarely is violence in books called out. Traditional sci-fi fantasy novels written by men are FULL of extremely graphic, gory, and violent scenes, and yet, these books are often lauded (Game of Thrones by George RR Martin, The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie, etc ) and no man is ever shamed for loving/endorsing/flaming the fandom of these types of books. So love/sex is bad, and violent murder is ok. Sounds about right for our culture. Sigh.
I'm a bookseller at an independent bookstore and while I'm not typically a fantasy reader and haven't read Sarah Maas' books (yet), I absolutely LOVE how engaged and excited people are about this series, and how willing they are to talk about it and connect with others. When I'm at work, it's not uncommon for me to witness people who have never met before find out that they both read Sarah Maas, and then get deep into conversation about the books and characters. I've also had numerous readers of this series talk to me about how it got them through a hard time (such as an illness or recovery, a break-up, a big change in their life like moving to a new place) and how much they enjoyed the experience of reading these books.
I've been thinking lately about how that immersive experience of reading is really what often what hook people into being readers. Looking for the recreation of that experience, of getting totally pulled into a story, is one of the things that keeps people coming back for more. It's a hard thing to describe, because it seems like some books seem more likely to pull us into that richness more fully, and it also often needs to have that magic overlap with right book / right time / right person. It's a special thing!
As a long-time romance reader, my friends and I have constantly joked that all of Nora Roberts' heroes and heroines are actually just painting Thomas Kinkade pieces. I fully believe Feyre is part of the Thomas Kinkade Romance School of Art for Heroes Who Can't Paint Good.
this made me cackle
I am a DEVOUT reader of fanfiction (AHP, have you read Manacled yet, as per Melody's suggestion??) and I think the thing I find both perplexing and compelling about ACOTAR is that the books are like...iterative fanfiction of themselves? Fanfiction so often serves as authorial wish fulfillment-- I want these characters to pine for each other, be thrust into this ridiculous situation, and also look hot, etc. without having to stick to the prescriptions of what a book is "supposed" to do. And ACOTAR kind of reads like SJM is doing that too! It's so hard to pin down but so predictable at the same time? Idk, still chewing on this thesis.
Iterative fanfiction of themselves is a dead-on description, imo.
omg wow this just blew my mind. this is ESPECIALLY what crescent city felt like to me (and why i hated it).
I like fanfiction. I'm totally into writing stories as a way of commenting on/exploring other stories. But I think it's a completely different medium than published fiction, and I do NOT want my published fiction to feel like fanfiction. I think a lot of my problems with the most popular genre novels of the last few years has come from the fact that they feel like fanfiction.
AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
100%!! That's pretty much the only explanation for the existence of the novella too (the holiday/midwinter/basic white girl cozy season one; I read it twice, lol).
Yes, to this! I think it's why I feel like they're "bad" at times? They're perhaps a little too shallow and a little too perfect. I honestly had predicted at the end of ACOTAR that Feyre would get a boosted power of one court, and it would be Winter which would thematically represent her incompatibility with Tamlin (and tie back to when he picked the winter forest as his favorite painting of her), and her inner brutality.
Buuut then she just becomes the fae avatar and gets ALL the powers and just as good or better as these 500 year old fae within 6 months. It's such a fanfiction-y thing to do.
As someone who reads an absurd amount of historical romance and a more moderate amount of romantasy, I think it’s fascinating how patriarchal society and relationships (especially when you have an “alpha” hero) are handled in most *modern* historicals as opposed to these popular romantasy series. In many ways the romantasy genre feels more in line with historicals of old (ie the 80s and early 90s) with the territorial/dominant/possessive qualities of the hero being used as a stand in for an emotional connection. I think it helps that most romances make an effort to switch between perspectives more consistently so that you can see how each character is changing as the relationship develops. I start to resent books where the author doesn’t do this and one of the parties remains mostly a mystery and the first ACOTAR was this for me.
YES. I was saying this elsethread--the things that we no longer accept in historical or contemporary romances, we can handwave in fantasy romance as ~worldbuilding~
No judgment in this. But I think that's what's going on.
And I could not agree more about the importance of dual POV. To me, it’s not a romance without it. It feels like 1/2 a book. I also associate the single POV/female only POV with “women’s fiction” which is like watered down romance.
Oooh yes. Half a book is absolutely how I would characterize it! I’ve realized that what I care about in a romance is not the HEA for the heroine, but the HEA for the couple. That means that I need to see inside both of their heads to understand how being together has made them both happier and stronger.
On the rare occasions I encounter someone who scoffs at romance, I always explain that a good romance shows what a healthy relationship looks like. I almost feel like couples therapists should assign some of them as homework for their clients.
Very much the same. I care about how the relationship develops internally for the MCs. So only getting one side of that development feels very lopsided.
Hi! New to the genre. Can you recommend anything that didn’t feel like half a book? So that I can see an example?
For a dip into historical, try reading Mary Balogh’s books (the Bedwyns, the Wescotts, ravenswood… so many families so the world gets built and you don’t have to do heavy lifting from book to book). It may spoil you for other writers if you like emotional/angsty connections. Bridgerton was my gateway into the genre, but Mary Balogh’s series are the best (followed by Laura Kinsale who feels more literary romance).
Fantasy is harder but try Naomi Novik.
Thank you!!
My very favorite historical romance writer is Lisa Kleypas. Her writing is excellent and her characters are SO likable. You also get books that connect to each other and so that makes it so satisfying!
Historical? Fantasy? Contemporary? I have many many recs lol. Also what’s your spice level tolerance. Some are tamer than others 🌶️🌶️🌶️
I’ve never tried historical, but I’m open to it! I liked the level of spice in ACOTAR. I am less excited about a sex scene on page 1 and more excited about a slow build.
Historical— There are SO many good historical. It’s hard to narrow it down. This list is woefully inadequate and very hetero, white lady centric.
Julia Quinn (Bridgerton’s if that’s your thing.) Pretty tame. I enjoyed the series and was one that eased me back into romance.
Sarah McClean (especially her earlier books). More of a modern historical.
Lord of Scoundrels—classic (old school) historical by Loretta Chase
Contemporary
Everything Kate Clayborn has written
Select Tessa Bailey. Her earlier stuff was spicier but also more uneven. As she’s gotten more popular I feel like she’s toned down the spice.
Eve Dangerfield—Silver Sisters Ink series and others. Pretty high spice.
Eve Dangerfield and Tessa Bailey write a book together (consensual stalker situation) that I really enjoyed— Captivated
Penny Reid (she’s created her own quirky contemporary world and has several interconnected series. I enjoyed the Winston Bros series but found other books a little tedious at times. Could be a little twee for some.
Kristen Callihan—Idol (and entire VIP series)
Bad Neighbor by M. O’Keefe. I really enjoyed this one.
Romantasy—my list here is shorter because I’ve just gotten into to this a bit more.
Ruby Dixon—Ice Planet Barbarian, Taken to Voraxia series and the Dark City Omega series.
Fourth Wing ((I’ve started this but can’t vouch for the ending)
Amanda Bouchet Nightchaser series (Space Romance. It’s been a while but I think they are all human?)
So funny you say Tessa Bailey toned down her spice bc I felt like her newest book was like startling in the dominance spice level, and I actually couldn't really get into it. But totally agree that her books vary in space level.
And I just read Georgie All Along by Kate Clayborn and it was *chef's kiss*
Interesting insight! I cut my teeth on historical romance and it’s been interesting to see that sub genre change so much. It does seem like the alpha/fated mates theme comes up more often in romantasy. I will definitely have to think about this more.
I pretty much only read romance. I enjoyed it as a young/new adult but read other “more edifying” things too. I was a huge reader. Then life/work/kids happened, and I stopped reading for pleasure for a long time. When I felt called to restart I “eased” back into it with romance which I remembered brought me so much joy and laughs, which I really needed.
But I found I was so stressed and emotionally fragile that I didn’t enjoy the emotional sucker punches of a lot of other genres so I’ve stuck to romance.
During very stressful times when I was struggling, romance has been like a port of safety that gave me a place to retreat from the world for a little bit. I’m immensely grateful to the genre. And fantasy romance is just that much more of a relief because when the world is so different it’s just that much easier to lose yourself in it.
All of this is to say ACOTAR is right up my alley and I wanted to LOVE it but I abandoned book 1 about 1/2 way through because it’s was so slow and boring. I wanted the immersive, sexy joy of it but honestly I’m spoiled because when it comes to sexy fantasy the romance genre honestly does it much better.
But I’m still jealous because I’d really like the ACOTAR experience. In light of this thread I will try again and have the book on hold.
I feel like the fantasy/monster romance category is just exploding right now and I’m looking to read more great fantasy/romance (I just learned the word “romantasy”). For anyone interested I’d recommend Ruby Dixon:
Ice Planet Barbarians, by Ruby Dixon. Bonkers is the only way to describe this series but it’s a fun ride. Has a “fated mates” aspect and involves blue aliens who are just the most devoted, grateful partners. This series helped me get thru the pandemic.
Ruby Dixon is/was a self-published author whose books spread through the romance community on IG (and prob tiktok too). It was like a fun, little fire that spread from account to account. Her books were too “out there” for mainstream publishing until just recently. Her books have now been picked up for distribution by a couple of main stream publishers because they are really popular (and perhaps books like ACOTAR have opened up the genre?)
Dark City Omega, also by Ruby Dixon—this is a good entry point to the “omega-verse” (which is also bonkers—do you know what “knotting” is? I had to look it up 😬). It’s another approach to “fated mates” but in a darker, crueler world than IPB.
Does anyone else have romantasy recs?
I love your story about what reading romance has meant to you. Signed, a romance editor. ❤️
You do heroes work! Nothing beats a good romance!
I have so many recs! I’m very particular about world building and dialogue.
Tonight, I Burn by Katharine J Adams. The thorn witches have to burn each night to help escort people to the underworld. One night our heroine’s sister doesn’t come home so she goes to look for her. She ends up in a polyamorous relationship with a prophet and a guy in the underworld.
A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane. Hands down the best romance I’ve ever read with amazing world building. Enemies-(as in I want to kill you but instead will marriage of convenience you for vengeance)-to-lovers road trip with so much character growth.
Consort of Fire by Kit Rocha. F/F/M dragon god shifter. Before this book had a title, the authors called it “the horny dragon book.” The princess is sent to be consort to the dragon god (he hasn’t had one for 100 years, thus the horniness) and brings her handmaiden with whom she’s already in a loving relationship. She’s also there to kill him. The dragon god is also very into consent culture.
A Broken Blade by Melissa Blair. Definitely has self-published vibes, but the world building is good and the heroine is a good character. She’s been conscripted as the evil king’s head spy/assassin in a world where everyone of mixed race/non-humans is enslaved or killed. The author is Native and there is a lot of interrogation of colonization, slavery, and appropriation of sacred crops into addictive substances for profit.
I am DYING for the next Milla Vane book to come out!!!
YES! I know authors are people and I'm extending grace to everyone but HOT DAMN where is A Dance of Smoke and Steel?? (Also I follow your reviews on Goodreads and they're so great!)
Oh my gosh! Thank you so much for telling me. I'm glad you enjoy them!
Thank you so much!!! Great recs.
A Broken Blade and the rest of the series is great! Added the rest to my Goodreads, thanks!
You are the hero we deserve. I'm so hyped on a) the term romantasy and b) recommendations!
Consort of Fire sounds INCREDIBLE. Thank you for all four recs!! I'm getting them all...
If you’re up for reading M/M and F/F, Freya Marske’s The Last Binding series is my favorite romantasy series in recent years. Very sweet and very hot!
I am! Thank you!
I would suggest that if you didn't love book 1 you can skip to book 2. they will rehash it all anyway. you'll miss some details but meh.
and yes to other authors doing sexy fantasy better!
I've really enjoyed Ilona andrews' hidden legacy series as romantasy. they have other series but that's the hottest one ;)
Oh thank you! I feel like I read something by Andrews but not that book I don’t think.
Re: quitting ACOTAR halfway through - definitely consider giving it another shot! I haaaate when people say something "gets good" halfway through a series - why on earth should I have to read MULTIPLE BOOKS to start enjoying something? Life is short! So I don't say this lightly, but the payoff is worth it in this series.
I absolutely turned my nose up at ACOTAR when I first came across it in 2019, eventually got it on Libby only to deem it boring/too much of an on-the-nose Beauty and the Beast retelling and quit halfway through in 2021, and then in 2023 I finally read the whole thing and fell deep into the rabbit hole and read all 15 books by Sarah J Maas in a month or two. It really really doesn't stay as predictable and dull as it seems at first; it takes an unexpected turn about 3/4 of the way through and from then on it's a full rollercoaster ride, but you need the background. I will also say - one of my favorite things about all of SJM's books is she really writes with re-readers in mind. It's the kind of series that I was tempted to immediately re-read after I finished it just to catch all the little bits of foreshadowing and Easter eggs that I missed the first time. You'll think the story is one thing, only to learn a book later that you were missing a crucial puzzle piece that changes your perspective on everything, and she pulls this off multiple times in multiple series that connect in a multiverse!
Also - yes to Ruby Dixon! IPB has somehow become the reassuring cozy series I read when I need to relax, love those earnest wholesome blue dudes. :D
Earnest and wholesome is exactly right!
Book 2. Book 1 was meh for me, until the last 1/4, but Book 2 made me a devotee.
I love romance too. It's the perfect genre during tough times because the protagonists are always guaranteed a happy ending, so it's much less stressful to read.
ACOTAR was tough to read because until, IMO, book 2, it doesn't really get "fun" on the romance side with banter and lightness. Which makes sense given the setting of Book 1, it's sort of a hard-earned victory and is fairly dark. I still enjoyed it though!
Super excited to see the newsletter this morning! I also really appreciate diving into ACOTAR since this is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about the past year - my best friend has gone headfirst into ACOTAR and the SJM extended universe. She's successfully gotten a TON of friends into it as well (which I love for them!). I've struggled to get through the series - I pushed through books 1 and 2 because I love her and trust her, and am now stuck in early book 3. She and I have had a lot of conversations along these lines and it's been interesting to try and figure out why it just doesn't click for me the same way it has for her and so many others. I think part of it is because I'm a longtime fantasy and historical romance reader, and many of the romantasy series I've tried feel like they let me down for one or the other. Either the worldbuilding is so thin and just ~vibes~ that I'm left frustrated about how things work and how hand-wavey some of it feels (and I do love a series that feels lived in and well thought out with a good dose of political intrigue), or the romance is predictable and somewhat bland compared to some of the historical romance authors I love (Courtney Milan, Sarah MacLean, etc.). We end a lot of our conversations with "YMMV" (your mileage may vary) - a good reminder to ourselves that each of us has stuff that does or doesn't click and there's no judgment attached to that.
Quick personal favorite recs: I'll second Freya Marske's The Last Binding Trilogy. Also, T. Kingfisher's The Saint of Steel series (angsty paladins find love while being very competent! the protagonists are adults who have creaky knees! one of the paladins knits in his spare time!), the Captive Prince series by C.S. Pacat (true enemies to lovers), and A Taste of Gold and Iron by Alexandra Rowland.
I wish T. Kingfisher was as well known as SJM! She is astoundingly talented. I want to add a massive trigger warning for rape and enslavement for the Captive Prince series.
Yes, absolutely, and thank you! Captive Prince is one where folks should absolutely check the trigger warnings and a big ymmv there
I love Saints of Steel (recommended on CS!) but I felt like the plot got a little tired. Like, all the soldier characters are convinced there's something wrong with them, and the internal monologue is a light of insecurities. That being said, I'll happily ready the rest of the series as it's released! Middle-aged protagonists, knitters, fantastic banter - she's speaking my language!
Oh my god, a taste of gold and iron is SOOO GOOD
I went through the same thing! A friend of mine got really into ACOTAR and the Fourth Wing series so I gave them both a try and they just did not click for me. I did like the last ACOTAR book starring Nesta more than the rest of the series but I also thought she was the most interesting character from book one so YMMV. +1 to the T. Kingfisher and Alexandra Rowland recs!
Just want to say how much I relate to the “crappy taste hierarchies” issue. I did an honours degree in English over 20 years ago and I’m *still* trying to stop seeing literature as a pyramid, with the classics and poetry near the top, and to start seeing it as more of a buffet—as in an impressively massive spread with no “bad” choices, but rather something there for every taste, mood, time of day. I can’t say ACOTAR is something I want to dig into right now but who knows? Maybe someday I will.
Former English major here, too! Looking back on my degree, I feel like I’ve read every version of the male coming of age novel, the male existential reckoning novel, the male adventure novel, and then the every woman getting punished for having sex or desiring more from life novel, that I don’t find I need to read classics/high brow literature anymore, nor do I put them in the category of the great American novels anymore. Perhaps I’ve gone too far in the other direction, but these days if I read fiction at all, the women protagonists are having the great adventures, the great sex, and the great coming of age saga. Screw the English degree.
A few years ago I decided that until I felt like stopping, my reading diet henceforward would consist of Female Badasses Doing Badass Things And Having A Badass Time. I did this for at least 18 months. (This included a lot of fantasy, because nonfiction is unsurprisingly light on these!) And it shifted something deep inside me. After that I looked up at the actual real world around me and said with even more disgust than before, "What the hell is going on here." I now have even less patience for male-centric worlds, in fiction or in real life. But now that I've read all those beautiful and powerful female stories, my "zero patience" feels like "y'all, that shit is dumb," not "how will we ever change it." I know how we will change it. I can imagine what it looks like when women have just as many great stories, because I've read them.
Another English major here. It's not a conscious decision, but I really tend to read 90% female authors, and I....don't care. I have a few male authors I make exceptions for but the more you read books where women are written as dimensional people, the harder it is to go back!
Also a former English major. I never really thought about my tendency to primarily read female authors as a result of that before, but maybe there is something to that.
So much of "classic lit" especially is by men, so that's who gets taught. I think it's getting better as the decades go by, but even when I was in undergrad in the early aughts there was so much male gaze inherent in an English lit degree.
So interesting. I do this too and recently read my first male author fiction in years for book club. His depiction of the women’s characters was so incredibly flat and unbelievable. It really stood out to me.
It’s not really fair but the few times I’ve considering reading outside romance in the past couple of years, it’s only been to read memoirs or other stories written by women. I just have no desire to read a book written by a man.
I remember being judged by the English lit majors during my undergrad because I was heavily into Jane Austen. Jokes on them now! The early August especially were full of debates about whether fiction that centered female relationships and desires was less literary.
I call it the “women kicking ass” genre. For me, it’s that male-centric fiction or tv is dumb and profoundly boring.
I totally get this. I dropped out of a MA in English over 15 years years ago, I'm an avid life long reader, and one of my jobs is working as a bookseller. As a student and young person, I read books by women, for sure, and was very into feminist theory, but even so, mostly I was expected to read ALL THE MEN. I mean, really ALL THE MEN.
I read 75 - 100 books a year, mostly very current books because I work in the bookselling industry, and you know what? Maybe 5-8 were written by men. In particular, if I'm reading fiction, I'm mostly interested in women and/or queer-identifying writers. I have a limited number of books I can read a year, and male writers are no longer a priority. Sorry dudes.
I still laugh at myself for telling a former (male) roommate, who was in the process of writing a novel himself, "yea I just don't think I can read books written by men anymore" and he was like, "fair". I think I had just talked his ear off about a terrible book I read about a terrible male protagonist obliviously walking into a divorce.
Yes to all of this! I read so many (white, hetero) male stories as an English major and I was so wrapped up in the hierarchies of quality in literature. It took years to understand how much of my literary snobbery was the patriarchy having it's way with me. I read mostly female authors now and in a variety of genres and it's SO MUCH BETTER.
Yeah, this, exactly. Like, personally nothing could sound less appealing and I will never pick up one of these books BUT that is also true about plenty of "good" literature too? And that doesn't mean a ton of people can't/shouldn't get genuine pleasure from reading them? There are soooooo many books in the world, there's something for everything, that's a feature not a bug!