My ongoing challenge with friendship / community *right now* is still COVID-19.
I LOVE thick community and have had beautiful formation in it; in many ways, I am a logistics person and have often functioned as organizer / welcomer / linchpin. But the way society has chosen to "live with" COVID--despite it being a leading cause of death worldwide to this day, despite it disabling ever-growing huge swaths of people, often without their realization that their new onset health challenges are post-COVID sequelae--means that immunocompromised people (or people who recognize the threats of COVID and don't want them for themselves or their kids) are just kind of ... left out?
I'm seeing a lot of past-tense pandemic references here, and with great tenderness, I would beg you all to remember that while the official pandemic emergency has ended, the pandemic rages on, and it continues to radically affect things like energy levels and health for most people, along with limiting the free-flowing relational energies many of us really value and long for, even though they are increasingly inaccessible to us.
Mostly I'm saying this for other people who are in this boat to feel seen. We are here, too. <3
I appreciate your comment Cynthia, and everyone else's comments too. Covid disabled my spouse, and four years (nearly to the day) later, my conceptions of partnership, friendship, community, care, family, has been incinerated and I am desperately trying to regrow from that place rather than hold on fiercely to who I was pre-2020. How can I again be the type of person who *shows up* for my people and community(s)? My inclination has always been to gather people, to overextend, to embrace spontaneity, to prioritize a network over pretty much anything else. Everything's changed now, because it takes herculean efforts to keep myself sane and my wife focused on healing, my pets fed, a job secured etc. I've had 12 hours of IRL social time in 2024. I just counted. The fact that I could count is astounding. I don't know what the point of me writing any of this is, besides to say I also see you! And I am here to keep finding ways to build this kind of supportive social fabric, even with the challenges of chronic illness. Thanks as always AHP for your insights and the space for these conversations.
Oh, I hear this--all of it. It is just so so much. I don't have anything to add or consolation, just bearing witness to the ways your life has shifted and the work of grief for what was, what could have been, and what is. And here with you to keep finding those ways to build.
YES. Thank you for saying just what I was thinking while reading ❤️
How can I prioritize spontaneous hangs when I have to ask folks to take rapid tests before coming over every time? The stakes for me are high and—as I approach the possibility of going on Rituxan (a cancer drug that I’m using to treat severe autoimmune disease) later this summer—only getting higher. I feel betrayed and left behind, unable to pretend that this “new normal” is an acceptable price to pay for the suffering and deaths of people like me.
So I video chat with my disabled friends around the world. I wear a mask to the art museum. I wear a mask to the movies. I wear a mask to concerts. I eat with my in-laws outside (when it’s not 101 degrees like it has been in Missouri this week). I bring chocolate date bars to my new neighbors and my old ones too. I send all my friends handmade birthday cards. I celebrate “friend anniversaries.” I do all that I can to build new networks and keep my old networks strong.
And all the while, I am weary and see ahead of me this pandemic world without end.
I wanted to comment in solidarity with all of this. I don't have LC but I do have ME/CFS from a mono infection 20 years ago so I do not mess around with post-viral possibilities. It's so lonely sometimes - and what you said about eating outside "when it's not 101 degrees" really resonated with me, too. I don't eat out indoors but with this weather (90s and humid every day until at least late September), that means not eating out at all. It's dangerous to eat indoors and it's dangerous to eat outdoors.
"Weary" is exactly the right word for it. I am weary.
I am in this boat, and I thank you for saying this. I am an immunocompromised person, and I do really feel like the pandemic has been and continues to be a big limiting factor for my husband and I - we still don't eat out, go to movies, etc. Luckily, we have a space where we can host, and our small group of friends all see eye-to-eye with us on precautions, etc., but it's absolutely something that prevents us from expanding our group and building a stronger community, which both of us desperately want to do!
Yes! We can gather with small groups of people as long as we all communicate really clearly on expectations (i.e., let's make it outdoors; don't come if you have any symptoms of illness)--but even that is quite limiting given how much illness is constantly circulating (many of our friends are with us in the young-kid stage of life, and schools are such a driver of illness). And we are generally the ones who have to host.
The challenge is obviously complicated by friends who don't share our precautions or think we're being selfish / over-cautious / conspiracy-minded.
But at the broader level of community involvement, it's hard to WANT to make all these connections and to see how little effort has been put into (1) cleaning indoor public air; (2) normalizing / de-politicizing masking; (3) normalizing (and financially supporting) staying home if you're sick.
And of course all of this is also modulated by the radical swings in energy and capacity that often come along with chronic illness. I can't plan three events a weekend on the chance one or two friends cancel for illness, because I don't have the capacity to do all three events on the chance they happen!
All of which is to say: solidarity. We are doing the best we can, but the more widespread awareness of the actual threats of covid (for everyone!) grows, the more just and inclusive our community spaces can be.
Thank you for saying this. This is my big challenge right now. Pre-pandemic I was so social--I went to concerts, to bars, to events. I'm still very Covid-cautious (I wear a mask nearly everywhere) and have literally no one in my friend circle who takes the same precautions. Now, summer can be great if it's not too disgustingly hot out, because it makes outdoor activities more manageable and I can see more people. Almost everyone wants to grab a drink or grab dinner, and I don't do indoor dining. And if it's 94 degrees out plus humidity, being outside isn't super fun. Sigh. I have very few solutions, tbh. But it's frustrating how few people are thinking about this. And now NY and other states want to ban masking. I feel like I'm living in upside down land.
Ugh yes I feel this so deeply. Virtually none of my local friends take any COVID precautions anymore and rely on logic of it being a "personal choice" (which, don't get me started on this). So it feels like my choices are to be firm in my boundaries and basically never see anyone socially or to make slight concessions (like being indoors and unmasked with a small group of people) to keep the peace and get some social time. The weather has also been atrociously hot for outside activities where I live too. All to say, I am so tired and I'm sure you all are too, but it's nice to know we're not alone.
I hear you! I live in a place where it's VERY cold for a very long winter, and then summer can be nice if it's not too hot or wildfire-smoked out, but it is very short, or we get rained out, etc. I wish there were easier fixes that were in my power, too.
I was just out in Southern California where I have some family and it was so amazing to be able to be outside 99.9% of the time. Granted, it's expensive AF, I know wildfires are an issue, and global warming will muck things up, but at the moment most of the time it is glorious out. I was so envious that they live there. (Even though I know the car culture and sprawl makes seeing friends difficult!) It's not a move I could foresee making unless a miracle happened, alas!
The loneliness of 2020 was, for me, was by far the worst part of the experience. My husband and I adhered to stricter guidelines than any of our family or friends did, thinking that we were doing what was best for our health and others. Instead, it was psychologically and physically devastating.
I will always take precautionary measures that others request, but for myself, I will take COVID every year over that kind of isolation again. After all, it was the isolation, and not COVID, that ultimately contributed to my chronic illness.
I hear you on the loneliness. It continues to devastate me and to affect my health. My challenge is that I can't just choose to take COVID every year over the precautions: the risk is too high that it will exacerbate my illness or cause new-onset post-COVID health problems that will push me even further into disability.
(And unfortunately, the research increasingly indicates that everyone who continues to get COVID once or twice a year will probably get into long-COVID territory eventually.)
I think part of our problem is false binaries. It's not either "precautionary measures=radical isolation=loneliness" OR "zero precautions=full socialization=not loneliness." There are all sorts of things collectives and societies could be doing to make spaces more accessible so loneliness and isolation don't have to be a personal choice. It's just most of them are ... not.
I hear you that you need to choose health over socialization that comes with COVID risks. What I wanted to voice is that people who are socializing regardless of COVID, like me, are not simply ignoring the threat or living recklessly. For many of us, choosing regular socializing *is* a carefully calculated health choice.
For the most part, I agree! It's been so disappointing to see how many organizations and establishments focused on cleaning surfaces rather than improving ventilation -- even to this day.
Yes, I have read that research as well and have many serious questions about the people who participated, and the way researchers interpreted their findings.
What I think many non-disabled people don't understand is the loneliness of chronic illness. Loneliness is being alone in bed all day because I am too exhausted to think coherent thoughts. The light hurts. I can't sleep but I can't wake up, either. People think it can't or won't happen to them.
People who are not disabled/chronically ill/immunocompromised who won't take basic precautions (masks, testing) frustrate me more than anything.
I hear this all the way down. It's so hard to convey how isolating the fatigue can be, and other symptoms, and the risk of this happening to others is NOT SMALL with endlessly repeating covid infections. I love love love my friends and don't want this for them.
I’m curious what research you have to support that theory of inevitable “long covid” because I have seen nothing that suggests that is true post vaccination. I’m saying this as someone very familiar with scientific research and has friends and family involved in research around COVID and vaccines. In fact, many people who were suffering from continuous symptoms post initial Covid infection saw those symptoms alleviated by vaccination. A dear friend of mine was among such people.
THE SICK TIMES is an advocacy-oriented newsletter focused on Long COVID that collates research updates, individual stories, and advice on mitigations: https://thesicktimes.org
The great news is that vaccination DOES appear to reduce the risk of long COVID, perhaps by as much as half, which is awesome (though of course not everyone can get vaccinated, and immune-suppressed folks might not mount a great response to vaccines). But the risk of long covid increases rather than decreasing with each infection (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10454552/), so if we all keep getting it once or twice a year for decades, our odds aren't great, even with the help offered by vaccines. (Anecdotally, most of my friends with diagnosed long covid were vaccinated and boosted.)
Anecdotally, some folks have found relief with vaccination; others have gotten worse.
Agreeing here. While I live alone and can choose when I am out and with whom, my best friend is responsible for the care of her mother who is in her 90s. She still masks. They both test all the time. The mom was just in and out of the hospital twice recently and mostly in the ICU. Her health is fragile and my friend is still taking every precaution so she doesn't actually kill her mother. We agree with you that the pandemic still rages. I manage the cemetery district in our small town. I would prefer to not bury another person who died from COVID - I have done enough - but yes, COVID is still out there and affecting us all.
Yes, this, so much. Every time a co-worker or acquaintance or even friend off-handedly says something like "back in COVID times" I'm always (annoyingly, I am sure) interrupting to say "ummm...it is still actually very much the COVID times, tho..."
This is something I think about a lot, esp since I’m single and childless. I would like more friends in general, I only have a few close friends and a few more medium friends. But even with a small number it seems it takes an act of congress to get together, but they all have partners and families and as much as they say they prioritize friendships it’s just still so obviously a second tier consideration.
At the end of last year I was having a hard time. Holidays are painfully lonely and I reached out saying I was struggling and could use some support and seeing friends in person. They responded nicely, saying they felt for me, but in the end I only met with them once that month. They were just busy.
I’ve tried hosting regular monthly dinners, often people who said they could come back out last minute and several times I’ve had literally no one come. That gets old. This year for my birthday I wanted a low key and easy to plan get together so planned to go out to dinner with 2 close friends, planned weeks in advance and vetted time and location. Day of I let them know where the table is and one says oops she got the time wrong and her husband is out playing golf so she has to stay home with their kid. She felt bad but I found it so telling. Right now I’m taking a break from planning because I’m exhausted with the effort for so little pay off. But it means I haven’t seen people in weeks. Since they live with their partners I don’t think they care as much. So for me the biggest struggle is finding people who actually care about prioritizing friendships (not just giving lip service to that). Everyone seems happy to be acquaintances but they’re just too busy otherwise. Where are these people?!
This is so hard, Jen, and I've absolutely felt this. There are people out there who feel the same, and who want to really prioritize friendship — and I swear they're in every community. My one piece of advice would be to start looking outside of your own age group, which might also mean thinking expansively about how you can meet people. I know that's big and hard advice, but I also know there are 20-somethings and 60-somethings out there well-practiced in prioritizing friendship.
Oh yes I agree! What I referred to as my medium friends are a lovely group of women in their 60s and 70s that have been meeting weekly (in the not winter months) for a few years for an exercise class, and we also periodically get together for dinners and recently started a book club. I love them but scheduling isn’t easier. One of the book club meetings already was canceled because the host had something going on with an adult child, despite yesterday’s meeting being scheduled for some time two people backed out the day before because family was in town, a few provide regular childcare for grandkids, many travel to visit their adult children more than I ever saw my parents at that age, and all the regular travel and life and so on. I do try to get together with a smaller group between bigger get togethers, and sometimes it works great and sometimes zero people show up in the end with that group as well.
I get it, it’s just how it is. They are also all partnered and there just is a strong default to the focus being your spouse and family and friends fill in the time around that where possible. When I was first building a new community after my ex-fiancé and I split I had a small group of single girlfriends and that was the closest I’ve experienced to full friendship since grad school, but it was short lived as all were partnered again within a year and the group fell apart (I am still good friends with one but she did move out of state). But while it took a while, last night we did get the next book club meeting scheduled…I’m very much looking forward to our September get together!
I feel this so hard. I moved into a new community, post-divorce, and cast a broad net to find community and friendship -- and it just hasn't worked out. I discovered this the hard way, when I was diagnosed with a very, very treatable and survivable cancer. Even though my prognosis was very positive, I still needed some help with dog walking, meals, someone to be with my mom during my surgery, and a couple of rides. Overall, across 3 months, I needed help about 10 times. And none of my friends showed up. It's not that they backed out, it's that no one accepted my explicit requests for help and/or offered help. I had to hire people, which I am blessedly able to afford, but it made me feel so lonely.
This is so hard — and post-divorce friendship-making can also be so hard! I'm sorry none of those people showed up for you, and I hope you find the people that will soon.
Omg yes, I have thought about what I’d do if I need someone to take me home from a medical procedure where they won’t let you take an Uber! I do have a group of older women friends some of whom are retired I could ask, but I know it will be ‘if they are available’ not something someone would make themselves available for because I needed the help. Though I do think I’d be more successful getting logistical help than the quality time/ emotional intimacy friendships I’m craving.
I have the friends I do because after my ex fiancé and I broke up I realized I needed a community (I’d been guilty of being someone who’d put all my eggs in the partner basket). It took years to get to where I am today, and I’m grateful for what I’ve built through a lot of effort, but it’s still not anything like the stories in the article. I actually don’t know anyone in real life like any of those people interviewed, but they all sound amazing!
Jen - sending you care! That sounds so tough. I'm a fellow child-less and single person (not necessarily by choice!). I feel like I went through that with my closest friends for years - I wanted to hang out more and see them, and they just couldn't do it. And when I had really tough times, they weren't there for me. Ultimately, I had to sort of let go of them. We're still friends, but it is at a much reduced level, which is what they can accommodate with their partners & kids and busy lives. Maybe one day it will change, but I'm not waiting around for that. Once I let them go emotionally, I had space to cultivate new friendships with people who did have more time and space in their lives for me. Some of them were folks I knew already but hadn't put time and energy into friendship, some were folks who moved back to town. I'm on the other side of it now, but it was incredibly emotional and difficult to move through. Good luck!! I'm sure there are wonderful people out there in your area who are looking for more friendship/community as well, and I hope that your paths cross soon!
Jen, I feel this too, and I was talking about it to a fellow single/no children friend who lives in another state she moved to a couple of years ago. She has found it almost impossible to find community or friends in her new city. She has one or two married or partnered friends who *might* slot her in once or twice a year. At this point I've lived in NYC for 18 years and yet many friendships are now long-distance because people moved during the pandemic, or live in a different borough that can take hours to get to. The truth is, if you're a parent, you are busy AF and your life revolves around the kids, and that's just how it is. But it means the single person ends up doing the heavy lift most of the time (and we're busy too!) so often those friendships drift away, which is sad. The pandemic really exacerbated this, imho. People got used to either being alone or in their small nuclear unit. I know I did. And even now, I'm the one that's reaching out to people to hang out and I feel like I'm nagging them when they're not responsive. I think a lot of people are having a tough time with life now but those of us who are single feel it very acutely.
As a fellow single, childless I feel this so hard. I had a moment of realization where I looked at my friendships through the lens of "if we met now would we be friends?" and I realized that if you looked at our relationship now, we wouldn't be considered friends. I've just kindof let them go and just embraced the loneliness of it all. Someone the loneliness is just easier to deal with than the rejection of always being the one to reach out and to always feel like the only one trying in the relationship. I'll see them once a year or so for what's really more of a "status update" than a living friendship. It sucks but it's nice to know at least their thriving
One thing I should add is that I find that it's (perhaps tellingly...) much easier to find available friends in men than it is in women. My guy friends are typically much easier to meet with for hobbies or drinks. Probably because families/society are situated in a way that allows men to have free time and engage in hobbies more than it does for women. But as a single woman, actively seeking friendships and engaging in friendships with men has been significantly more fruitful than trying to keep my friendships with women (all of whom are moms) going.
There is something to this. I truly value my fellow mom friends who make time for our friendship and it’s clear to us (also sad) that when some moms cannot make time it is because her partner is not giving her that time. Does she not think she can ask her partner to care for the kids so she can go to dinner once a month or schedule a long phone date? I’m sure it’s complicated but definitely something I have observed.
I love this language of "status update" friendships. It's not as meaningful necessarily, but sometimes it's all they can give right now. I maintain hope that one day they'll have more time to be closer friends again, but knowing that it's a "status update" type of relationship now helps me not feel so frustrated by it.
It was a way of framing things that really helped me. I found so much frustrating around how I wasn't actually "doing friendship" with any of my friends. We weren't engaging in activities, or checking out new restaurants, or seeing concerts, going to museums, travelling etc. All those things that make life rich. Instead these are friendships where you meet maybe annually or quarterly to hear updates on their life and around their kids. We usually meet in someone's backyard with their kids stealing focus and husbands awkwardly making conversation. Hardly get to connect as people at all...
It sucks, it really does, and I don’t have any great suggestions except that the CS community has so many awesome single and childless/childfree women in it—I think we need to find a way to harness that awesomeness!
I love the idea of routine. Right now, my BFF are in different states (NY and FL) with different aged children (10 + 7 and 6 +3). It makes getting together, or even talking on the phone, incredibly complicated. But we have a wonderful routine whereby whenever either of us is in the car alone and needs to reset, we call and leave each other a voicemail. They're usually long and meandering, but they're lovely ways to keep the pulse on each other's lives and vent our frustrations or say "I saw this cool thing that reminds me of you" or "I'm calling you to freak out so I don't say these things out loud at work and lose my job." It's the best. I leave very few voicemails for other people - or even choose to call over text, for that matter. But this has been the bread and butter of our relationship for at least 15 years. It saves the need to go into a lot of the backstory ("how's life" kinda stuff) when we do actually get to talk (which is also several times a week). But those conversations are so much more real because we already know the day-to-day stuff. And then when we do see each other in person, we just get to be us.
I love this! I did this to a friend after several texts of "We need to chat!" "Totally!" And nothing ever happened. I think we sometimes forget we can leave a message or voice note and keep somewhat updated that way.
I've not been on Marco Polo, but I can say the voicemails are incredibly addicting. They're very raw, lots of emotion that i don't feel as safe sharing in lots of places. But somehow, from the safety of my car to my best friend's voicemail, I feel safe and loved, and gosh is it cathartic
It used Marco Polo for a very short time (to stay in touch with my godchild in a different time zone) and I wanted to like it, but didn’t seem to get it: what makes it different from sending voice messages in Whatsapp?
It's video. Marco Polo feels like asynchronous FaceTime. You get the closeness and intimacy of just watching your friend talk as they make a sandwich for lunch, or fix their hair, or drive to an appointment. The app is glitchy as hell but it's been a lifeline for me and two besties since we all now live at least an hour apart from each other.
I really like the extra element of the video, it feels more intimate and immediate to share something interesting or funny I'm passing on a walk. Showing that the dog is sleeping next to me, or what I'm wearing to the party, or how messy my desk is makes it feel a little more like the person is really there. I have one friend who Marcos me while putting away groceries and interrupts her life update to show me things she found at the store and talk about what she's going to make with them.
THIS -- "And then when we do see each other in person, we just get to be us." -- so well said for why it's important to keep long distance friends looped on the mundane, lovely and frustrating of the day to day :)
My BFF and I use Voxer for this same thing -- a great way to connect almost on the daily. We actually rarely talk but we do a ton of these voice memos back and forth. Prob need to schedule an actual call lol!
I keep trying to get my friends onboard with voxer but they resist. i get not wanting to have another app, but personally i'm not a fan of whatsapp - i think it's the interface
My BFF was hesitant for the same reason and had never heard of Voxer. I convinced her to try it out for 2 weeks and to consider it an experiment -- if she didn't like it, then we wouldn't do it. I think Voxer and Marco Polo are essentially the same thing, but I could be wrong, so maybe let your friends choose which one to use and then convince them it's an experiment just to try out and see how life changes/improves with that freedom of contact.
Friendship has always been one of the most important themes in my life - I grew up in a family that ran multiple experiments at group living so the idea of chosen family is pretty ingrained, even though many of those experiences didn’t work out. How it works in practice for us now:
1) Family Dinner: every Friday, same three families, 8 kids between us, total chaos. A standing date that doesn’t change except in summer wanes a bit. A check in every Wednesday on who’s hosting. Order out, kids movie, make it easy. The single most important thing our families look forward to all week. We started it before the kids were born and then just kept going. We all used to live in the same town but we moved 20 mins away which has been tough, but this institution keeps it going.
2) Group chat and planned vacations: my college friends, which have had a name for 20 years, has a very active group chat and dedicated a summer vacation with full families at least once a year. This isn’t the same as neighborhood hanging out, but it ensures we get that feeling of co-living (big Airbnb) on a regular basis. Group chat keeps the intimacy daily.
3) Sunday hang: we’re just getting back into this after kids and the pandemic but it was a tradition we had for years — we invited friends we didn’t see enough in groups for a Sunday afternoon hang and early dinner. Not formal, just casual, mixing of groups, etc. My husband drives this one gives me the most anxiety because of my so-called need to “host” but the more casual we make it the better.
4) Men’s group/women’s group: dedicated nights/weekends of real conversations with people that have lasted years. My closest adult friends are from these investments.
5) Open door policy with next door neighbors. Our kids are in and out of each other’s house, which means we’re in and out of each other’s house. I remembered as I went over to pick up all of them for the camp run. It makes life so much easier and better for all of us.
Anyway, these are the ways we make it work and it has made our lives so much easier.
We’re slowly getting to this point with a few families in our neighborhood… our older kid is now old enough to free range and so he and his friends are routinely in and out of each other’s houses (which I adore!). My daughter’s best friend is basically my third child and vice versa. We’re at a comfortable point where we serve as backup childcare/rides and I see mixed-family vacations in the not-so-distant future. As an only child who didn’t live within walking distance of friends, this setup makes me SO happy.
This is a great question and has been tricky for us because both our parents are local. Sometimes parents join family dinner, and then usually Saturday night or Sunday morning we do family things. But it’s a balance. Luckily both our parents have big friend groups they have also deeply invested in and hold sacred times for so they get it. We also do week night dinners with parents sometimes - again just casual. My POV is even if it makes it slightly more chaotic, the more hands can be more helpful and we’re in it for the memories and connections, which comes with chaos.
My parents have very, very important decades long relationships of varying closeness, and having those examples have been so key. I didn’t realize how lucky I was until recently.
These are great. I like the combination of including kids and also having times without kids. And also it seems like there's something for everyone - introverts, extroverts, and people at all income levels.
Through my work doing community organizing, I've made one of my best friends, who happens to be 49 years older than me. It's my first intergenerational friendship and I cherish it so much. We do a lot of organizing work together but have recently started hanging out more for fun - monthly dinners, book club, and we're going to see the Indigo Girls in August. A lot of my friends who are my age say things like, "Oh it's so cute that you're friends with someone who's 77!" but that feels weird to me? Like I'm doing it out of pity or something. And that's definitely not the case - she's funny, she has the best stories, and we have a lot of shared interests. And I like to think we both teach each other a lot! Anyway, I just love this friendship and it's been such a blessing over the past few years. I hope everyone has the opportunity to experience an intergenerational friendship.
I totally know what you mean — and I've seen it in the framing of a lot of other intergenerational friendships, too, and I think it has everything to do with subtly (even often unconsciously) policing the status quo, like isn't it WEIRD that you find friendship with people not your age just as valuable?
Your situation is like one of my best friends. She rented a room in college from a retired lady for almost two years, and they still stay in touch. Now she's doing grad school across the country, and the person she clicks with in her cohort the most happens to be two decades older than her. And she's all in on it! She's an old soul too, so I think she feels more seen with these women than in friendship with younger folks, and I admire her earnest approach to building relationships with people regardless of who she "should" befriend.
In the most normal way, I have been obsessed with old people since I was a child. We're not given a handbook to living, but we have experienced livers all around us - what a gift! Conversations with people 40-50 years my senior are my speed - there's so little pressure to know what's on trend or have a snappy response (and older wit is so much more accessible to me), and many, many of these conversations are imbued with the perspective of, "enjoy this now," which - no matter what age I happen to be - is always life-changing to me. I'm so happy for the richness you get to enjoy in this friendship!
OMG yes! I have always been such a fan of intergenerational friendships! You never know who you are going to connect with and it's such a blessing to find kindred spirits, why would I reject someone just because they weren't born within a few years of me? I met a close friend who is probably 25 years older than me when we worked together nearly ten years ago now. She left that toxic workplace faster than me, but we remained friends and I so appreciate spending time with her. People just don't know what they're missing out on to not have friends from other generations.
Yes! I just hung out for 3 hours today with my closest intergenerational friend — they just graduated high school (they’re a former student who I taught in middle school) and I’m 27 years older. I hope we’re still geeking out about books together when I’m in my 70s!
A sincere question after reading so many comments by people who would love to make friends: AHP, is there any chance you would set up a spreadsheet that we could opt in on to say what city we live and if we're interested in making new friends? I'm thinking of it along the lines of your plant exchange in Garden Study and this would be a lot less work, right?
Who knows, this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
I cannot wait for this book! I’m sure you’ve probably seen it but there’s a picture that goes around on Instagram showing Americans at the drive-through sitting in their cars by themselves, waiting to get their coffee at Starbucks contrasted with a picture of Europeans sitting at an outdoor café together drinking their coffee. It feels like the perfect picture of why we are so lonely – – our society just really isn’t set up for us to be communal, and we have to make such an effort to make it happen. Thank you for all these great ideas for how we can try to work around these barriers!
The importance of the ease of hanging out (not having tons of barriers to it) is some thing that I think a lot of people don’t appreciate and some thing I notice when we are in Italy. It’s especially true outside the big cities where people just routinely run into each other, or go to the same café or wine bar every day or do the evening walk through the town and run into people. None of this requires scheduling.
This is so true - we have one friend who lives in an apartment in the downtown area of our (tiny) city. Almost anytime we're headed out as a couple, we drop him a note inviting him to join us. And many other people do the same, so he's enjoying every spontaneous hang. We could send the same last minute invite to folks living within 10min by car, but... we never do? It seems rude to ask someone to drop everything and *drive* to meet you, but not to be like, "I'm having a drink outside your front door, wanna join?"
What a great collection of interviews! I'm a lot like Sara. We moved to St Paul 4 years ago and I cast a wide net as soon as I could (the pandemic rendered the first year or two impossible). I'm not the world's most extroverted person but I recognize the importance of having a great friend group and I realize it takes work, especially now that I work remotely.
If we've talked a few times at the gym you better believe I will see if you want to get coffee. If our kids play together and you seem cool I'll probably invite your whole family over for dinner. I couldn't find a book club so I started one (one of the most nerve-wracking things I've done in my adult life!). It's been a lot of fun and I think it's been good to model for my kids.
I have a question about your tactic: you mentioned if you see someone at, say, the gym a few times and it's nice, you offer getting coffee. What about if it's the staff? My partner and I love chatting with the folks who work at our climbing gym, because they're funny and nice people with sweet doggos. But being welcoming is also literally their job... Having worked in customer service roles, I think I would feel ambiguous about a patron asking to hang out, even if I liked socializing with them on the job. Have you tried to navigate this tactfully, and if so, how has it gone?
My spouse is very good at initiating this kind of thing - he often will just tell a service worker "Hey, we're going to be getting drinks after this at XYZ place, we'd love for you to join us" and not phrase it as a request/demand that they have to actually respond to. Usually the person does not show, but occasionally someone responds really positively and either shows up or gives a genuine enough 'sorry to miss it' that it's natural to exchange numbers and set up an alternate social outing.
Oh that's a great way to do it too! The plan doesn't depend on their attendance, but they would be a welcome addition to the group. I might have to try that!
Ah that seems appropriate. I think because I’m often a plans initiator, I feel weird waiting for someone else to do it lol, but it’s good practice for me!
I love the emphasis on regular/ordinary rather than spectacular. I’ve always been a strong friend person, but because I’ve moved a lot, much of that friend work has been oriented toward maintaining connections from afar.
Ironically, I’ve struggled more as I settled in (finally living in 1 place for 5+ years, albeit with a pandemic thrown in). One challenge for me is being the perpetually single lady — a lot of my colleagues and acquaintances have built networks around couple friends and folks with kids in their kids’ classes. Those outlets simply aren’t available to me. One longtime friend confided that those friendships aren’t necessarily deep but they are convenient, and convenience trumps meaningful at this stage of life. Intellectually, I understand that; emotionally, I struggle with it, especially as it leaves me as the inconvenient friend (unintentionally, of course, but I’m not at kid pick-up or the kid swim meet so 🤷🏻♀️).
At the same time, the longtime friends who happen to live a couple miles away are a lifeline — casual invites for a walk or to come for a drink or to pop by after kids go to sleep mean a lot. I think we would have remained friendly had we not ended up so close, but the college-era foundation made this type of close middle-age friendship ramp up easily.
So much of what you said feels true for me too. My friends are scattered across the country or they have kids and are occupied with this kid-oriented networks. I have even thought at times I should have a kid so I could fit more conveniently into their lives. I'm back where I grew up and thinking I'm staying here for family reasons despite pretty severe reservations (Texas), and it used to be that more of my core friend group were here but they have gradually moved away, leaving 3 of us plus partners and kids.
What I really struggle with is that nothing seems to happen, at any level of casualness or complexity, unless I make it happen, and I think I am approaching burnout with that. The invitation to just drop by is not there and if it were, I'm not sure how to do that, honestly. I established a monthly "family dinner" - we'd all go to the house of the friend with the kids, cook or bring something simple unless someone felt inspired, and just hang out. It was great, but it somehow fell apart around the holidays and has never got back on track. I haven't had the energy to tackle that. I feel like I'm stuck in a trap where the things I need to do to get the nourishment I need are too hard because of lack of said nourishment.
My Mr. and I feel like we wrangle cats when we try to get our friends together. It's literally exhausting because while we love them, they're flaky AF. We now just pick a date when everyone is here, a time that is basically convenient for us and say "This is what is happening. Show up at your leisure because otherwise you will miss out on fun, you absolute knobs," and then go about our business and hope others arrive.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. We get...some attendance at least. But I understand it's just not fun or fulfilling to have that network available to you. My network is equally scattered or kid-oriented/basically acquaintances (but I think if I were to have a kid we would be closer as it has been made *very* clear that I'm on the outside due to my childlessness). It's...frustrating knowing your choices have made you an other at times.
My spouse and I do a lot of 2-family unit events, even though we have a much bigger group of friends who are also friends with each other. Scheduling wise it's just less of a nightmare to get two families' calendars aligned than 4 or 6 families. An unintended consequence of this is it does help foster more intimacy- I get a lot more one-on-one time with each individual, even if we're only seeing a couple every few months this way (as opposed to seeing them at a big group thing more frequently).
“I feel like I'm stuck in a trap where the things I need to do to get the nourishment I need are too hard because of lack of said nourishment.” <— rings truer than I’d like to admit. I think I have a bit of social anxiety around the acquaintance-maybe-friend ring, so although I want to do a chill monthly dinner or brunch or something, ramping it up on my own feels harder than I’d like it to be.
“Those friendships aren’t necessarily deep, but they are convenient” / “I’m not at kid pickup or the kid swim meet” — this is 100% a thing, but contextual friendships often disappear when (not if) circumstances change. When we first moved to Seattle, I cast a pretty wide net, but a lot of the friends I made wound up being the parents of my kids’ classmates/teammates. And over the past few years, as my kids’ interests and a friend groups have changed, those contextual friendships w/ parents evaporated too, even though I tried initiating and extending invitations to keep things going. It was a pretty big bummer, honestly, and left me scrambling to find or rekindle community in other places. All to say: if you genuinely feel a connection with them and have the bandwidth to maintain contact, don’t give up on your parent friends entirely. They may be in a different situation sooner than you think.
Re point 2 - my friend group calls this “closing the friend radius”! It makes sense! One predictor of future friendship is spontaneous interaction and it makes total sense to me that increasing the probability of that would also bolster existing relationships.
I bought a house that I love but that is frankly ridiculously large for just one person - it has a fantastic floorplan and location that make it ideal for hosting. I'm still doing all the grunt work of moving in, but have visions of book clubs and board game nights and dinner parties and craft days. I want VERY much to create that space and community. I love everything about this piece.
I used to live in Spokane and still go back often to visit friends and family. If you do yoga go to Harmony Yoga or the South Hill Y for one of the classes taught by Betsy Lawrence; tell her you're new in town and I sent you. She loves welcoming new people to Spokane, knows tons of people, always happy to make new friends of any age. For real.
Oooh, love Walla Walla! I'm in Olympia so maybe we can make this work as an AHP Reader Meet-up. Funny, I was thinking that this whole thread could serve as a friend-matching function kind of like the plant exchange in AHP's Garden Study newsletter.
Friendly Suggestion: A chapter about what happens when you make a major non-milestone change. Like health or sobriety. I'll admit that now that I don't drink, it's been a struggle to socialize as easily as I used to--almost a relearning of how to be a room without a planned agenda. (I'm still not great at it)
THIS! When I drank, alcohol was a shortcut to feeling confident and comfortable. Now that I’m sober, I sometimes just have to….. feel uncomfortable?? Be a little awkward?? I’m almost 5 years into my sobriety, so I’ve gotten a lot better, but it’s taken time. And I did lose touch with friends because we realized we had nothing left in common, which is tough.
The "these aren't real friends, these are drinking buddies" epiphanies were brutal--as was finding out I didn't really enjoy noisy bars and a few other socially normal activities that I was using alcohol to labor through. Thanks so much for this co-sign!
#5 about "making it happen" has me feeling so hopeful. I LOVE logistics and bringing people together and all that, but fears like "omg does this person *actually* want to hang out with me??" have so often hindered my follow-through. I'm more convinced now that I can treat my desire to "make it happen" as a strength, rather than evidence of my disproportionate investment in certain friendships.
I'm right here with you - the tension between knowing that I can and will organize a thing, and feeling like the people I'm reaching out to might not actually want me to do that, has really held me back over the years, and I'm trying not to let it limit me any more!
So excited for this book. I’ve experienced an unfortunate confluence of middle age, new motherhood, being a solo/freelance worker, and moving to a new neighborhood where we don’t know anyone. It’s been isolating!
Never in my adult life have I had a harder time making friends, (I have lots of theories on why this is), which led me to think more about community: the importance of it, and how it’s different but just as essential as a “friend group.” I’m one of the bad-at-community-bourgeois types you mentioned, so I need this field guide!
"Never in my adult life have I had a harder time making friends" I feel so much of this. I was a mom of little kids pre-pandemic, and exited the pandemic with middle-age kids. The pandemic feels like it disrupted a lot of the flow we'd created with other people, plus we emerged on the other side in a different parenting/life stage. I also work from home (which I mostly love!) but I've noticed over the past year or so how isolated I can be. I know the kind of friendships I would like to build or reflect on in a decade or two or three from now, but getting started often feels impossible!
Yes! The pandemic added an unspeakable layer of isolation to an already isolating stage of life. I had my second kid in January of 2020, so right around the time I was finally able to re-enter the world after caring for a newborn, and say, grab coffee with a friend, we went into lockdown/social distancing.
And I feel like it's messed with a lot parents' minds ever since. Like we missed out on the bonding experience we should have had with other parents during that time, and now we don't know how to be with each other.
Love love love this. #3 is why I show up to my non-audition (but we still sound so dang good) community choir. Most people are multiple generations older than me, but there are folks of all age ranges, and though some people are more friend-group-y than others, everyone's just *nice* and *happy to be there*. There are a few gals with who I got dinner once between the terms, and I'd like to do again. I think we're all just a little nervous about new friends, but I so appreciate your example of the lady who goes to lunch with just about everyone, because there's really no harm in it! Why does every social interaction have to be optimized???
I'm chewing on this: "We’ve just become incredibly impatient with the stubbornly slow work of community formation." Having graduated college into the early days of the pandemic, I didn't have precedent for post-school/family-organized community, and I think a lot of folks my generation feel the same. Things feel different now, and I know the post-grad transition can already be kind of rough, but four years later and I still feel like I'm floundering. I know people in my community - the vendors at my farmers market, the front desk staff at my climbing gym, that sort of thing - but I wouldn't call that a support system per se. I want a non-religious church-type community like what my grandparents had with their longtime congregation, with that variety of close connections and acquaintances, and a collective stepping up to help out people who need it. Very excited to read more about the book as you share, and to read it when it comes out, in hopes of seeing what might work in my life.
Your point about craving a church community without the religion part is such a good one - even though I’m not religious in any way, I’ve actually been tempted to join a church because having access to the positives of a community like that (the size, the breadth, the variety, the implied support) sounds SO good to me!
Did you join the meeting group as an adult (if so, what motivated you to do it) or were you a Quaker as kid (and what's kept you going)? I hear these can be really incredible spaces, but I think I just don't know enough to gauge if it would be right for me.
I started as an adult! I knew about Quakers from my anti war activism during the Iraq invasion but no one in my inner circle was a Quaker. I had grown up in a liberal Episcopalian church but drifted away from organized religion during college and my twenties. My husband is Jewish and has always been very involved with Jewish organizations and a synagogue, so seeing that helped me feel increasingly like I needed my own faith tradition. My meeting has been a great fit since we are in the unprogrammed liberal Quaker tradition, which is very pluralistic (our meeting has folks who range from devout Christians to atheists!)
That sounds honestly great! How did you find the meeting, like were there key terms that helped you figure out it would be pluralistic and welcoming in that way?
I think I just looked up Quaker meetings near me. I live in an area with three of them, and just stayed with the first one I found because I immediately felt like it was a good fit. But Quakers, like many denominations, are used to people “church shopping.” Most meetings associated with Friends General Conference are pretty liberal: https://www.fgcquaker.org/find-a-meeting/ Also, if they have anything about being “welcoming” or LGBTQ friendly that’s a good sign. I’ve insisted on putting that on our website to let folks know we are a safe and welcoming place.
Yes exactly! I got on a listserv for a local Unitarian Universalist church cuz I hear they’re the ~cool church, come as you are~ vibe. But I’ve yet to show up due to consistent schedule conflicts, and am a little terrified of following through, as I find religious contexts really overwhelming. So if anyone has ideas for non-religious community spaces like this, I’m all ears!
I mentioned this in an above comment, but if you're at all musical/musically interested, join a church choir! It's a great community and then you can have plausible deniability about your actual relationship to the religion (if you're still comfortable singing the type of music the choir sings).
I hadn't thought about this, I wonder how a church choir would be different from community choir. Our director explicitly tries not to do religious music, which I appreciate from an inclusive sense, but it does mean we miss out on working with soooo many beautiful compositions. If I do join a church, I think this might be a wise way to do it.
I started a friend group years ago in a different city and I'm planning to do it again where we're living now. It was simple: I sent an email to a bunch of women I'd met through various aspects of my work (mostly not coworkers, although I did send it to some) and said, "You're getting this email because I so enjoy talking with you when we have the chance but we lead super busy lives so we need to schedule friendship time. I'll be at the XYZ Bakery the second Saturday of next month at 9 a.m. Come hang out, bring a cool friend with you if you like." (That last line was because I knew that as grownups it can be hard to make new friends and it might be reassuring to have at least one person there you know you like to talk to and they didn't know who else was getting the email.)
I called it Second Saturdays and boy howdy, did it roll! Everyone thought it was a great idea. All I did was pick a coffee shop location every month with room for our group (sometimes half a dozen, sometimes over a dozen) and send a reminder email. Periodically I'd send an email to the list and say "If you want to be taken off this list let me know." Invariably someone would respond with a version of "I haven't been able to go yet but I really hope to make it someday so don't take me off!"
When I moved away from that city over 10 years later the group was still meeting. I handed the email list off to someone else who kept it going for a while, although it eventually ran its course. I became friends with women I never would have met without the group--friends of friends who came and kept coming after some of the women I'd originally invited stopped making time for it.
My ongoing challenge with friendship / community *right now* is still COVID-19.
I LOVE thick community and have had beautiful formation in it; in many ways, I am a logistics person and have often functioned as organizer / welcomer / linchpin. But the way society has chosen to "live with" COVID--despite it being a leading cause of death worldwide to this day, despite it disabling ever-growing huge swaths of people, often without their realization that their new onset health challenges are post-COVID sequelae--means that immunocompromised people (or people who recognize the threats of COVID and don't want them for themselves or their kids) are just kind of ... left out?
I'm seeing a lot of past-tense pandemic references here, and with great tenderness, I would beg you all to remember that while the official pandemic emergency has ended, the pandemic rages on, and it continues to radically affect things like energy levels and health for most people, along with limiting the free-flowing relational energies many of us really value and long for, even though they are increasingly inaccessible to us.
Mostly I'm saying this for other people who are in this boat to feel seen. We are here, too. <3
I appreciate your comment Cynthia, and everyone else's comments too. Covid disabled my spouse, and four years (nearly to the day) later, my conceptions of partnership, friendship, community, care, family, has been incinerated and I am desperately trying to regrow from that place rather than hold on fiercely to who I was pre-2020. How can I again be the type of person who *shows up* for my people and community(s)? My inclination has always been to gather people, to overextend, to embrace spontaneity, to prioritize a network over pretty much anything else. Everything's changed now, because it takes herculean efforts to keep myself sane and my wife focused on healing, my pets fed, a job secured etc. I've had 12 hours of IRL social time in 2024. I just counted. The fact that I could count is astounding. I don't know what the point of me writing any of this is, besides to say I also see you! And I am here to keep finding ways to build this kind of supportive social fabric, even with the challenges of chronic illness. Thanks as always AHP for your insights and the space for these conversations.
Oh, I hear this--all of it. It is just so so much. I don't have anything to add or consolation, just bearing witness to the ways your life has shifted and the work of grief for what was, what could have been, and what is. And here with you to keep finding those ways to build.
🖤
YES. Thank you for saying just what I was thinking while reading ❤️
How can I prioritize spontaneous hangs when I have to ask folks to take rapid tests before coming over every time? The stakes for me are high and—as I approach the possibility of going on Rituxan (a cancer drug that I’m using to treat severe autoimmune disease) later this summer—only getting higher. I feel betrayed and left behind, unable to pretend that this “new normal” is an acceptable price to pay for the suffering and deaths of people like me.
So I video chat with my disabled friends around the world. I wear a mask to the art museum. I wear a mask to the movies. I wear a mask to concerts. I eat with my in-laws outside (when it’s not 101 degrees like it has been in Missouri this week). I bring chocolate date bars to my new neighbors and my old ones too. I send all my friends handmade birthday cards. I celebrate “friend anniversaries.” I do all that I can to build new networks and keep my old networks strong.
And all the while, I am weary and see ahead of me this pandemic world without end.
I wanted to comment in solidarity with all of this. I don't have LC but I do have ME/CFS from a mono infection 20 years ago so I do not mess around with post-viral possibilities. It's so lonely sometimes - and what you said about eating outside "when it's not 101 degrees" really resonated with me, too. I don't eat out indoors but with this weather (90s and humid every day until at least late September), that means not eating out at all. It's dangerous to eat indoors and it's dangerous to eat outdoors.
"Weary" is exactly the right word for it. I am weary.
I am in this boat, and I thank you for saying this. I am an immunocompromised person, and I do really feel like the pandemic has been and continues to be a big limiting factor for my husband and I - we still don't eat out, go to movies, etc. Luckily, we have a space where we can host, and our small group of friends all see eye-to-eye with us on precautions, etc., but it's absolutely something that prevents us from expanding our group and building a stronger community, which both of us desperately want to do!
Yes! We can gather with small groups of people as long as we all communicate really clearly on expectations (i.e., let's make it outdoors; don't come if you have any symptoms of illness)--but even that is quite limiting given how much illness is constantly circulating (many of our friends are with us in the young-kid stage of life, and schools are such a driver of illness). And we are generally the ones who have to host.
The challenge is obviously complicated by friends who don't share our precautions or think we're being selfish / over-cautious / conspiracy-minded.
But at the broader level of community involvement, it's hard to WANT to make all these connections and to see how little effort has been put into (1) cleaning indoor public air; (2) normalizing / de-politicizing masking; (3) normalizing (and financially supporting) staying home if you're sick.
And of course all of this is also modulated by the radical swings in energy and capacity that often come along with chronic illness. I can't plan three events a weekend on the chance one or two friends cancel for illness, because I don't have the capacity to do all three events on the chance they happen!
All of which is to say: solidarity. We are doing the best we can, but the more widespread awareness of the actual threats of covid (for everyone!) grows, the more just and inclusive our community spaces can be.
I love everything you are saying. It is important and true.
Relate to ALL of this - well said!
Thank you for saying this. This is my big challenge right now. Pre-pandemic I was so social--I went to concerts, to bars, to events. I'm still very Covid-cautious (I wear a mask nearly everywhere) and have literally no one in my friend circle who takes the same precautions. Now, summer can be great if it's not too disgustingly hot out, because it makes outdoor activities more manageable and I can see more people. Almost everyone wants to grab a drink or grab dinner, and I don't do indoor dining. And if it's 94 degrees out plus humidity, being outside isn't super fun. Sigh. I have very few solutions, tbh. But it's frustrating how few people are thinking about this. And now NY and other states want to ban masking. I feel like I'm living in upside down land.
Ugh yes I feel this so deeply. Virtually none of my local friends take any COVID precautions anymore and rely on logic of it being a "personal choice" (which, don't get me started on this). So it feels like my choices are to be firm in my boundaries and basically never see anyone socially or to make slight concessions (like being indoors and unmasked with a small group of people) to keep the peace and get some social time. The weather has also been atrociously hot for outside activities where I live too. All to say, I am so tired and I'm sure you all are too, but it's nice to know we're not alone.
I hear you! I live in a place where it's VERY cold for a very long winter, and then summer can be nice if it's not too hot or wildfire-smoked out, but it is very short, or we get rained out, etc. I wish there were easier fixes that were in my power, too.
I was just out in Southern California where I have some family and it was so amazing to be able to be outside 99.9% of the time. Granted, it's expensive AF, I know wildfires are an issue, and global warming will muck things up, but at the moment most of the time it is glorious out. I was so envious that they live there. (Even though I know the car culture and sprawl makes seeing friends difficult!) It's not a move I could foresee making unless a miracle happened, alas!
So grateful to have you here, Cynthia.
The loneliness of 2020 was, for me, was by far the worst part of the experience. My husband and I adhered to stricter guidelines than any of our family or friends did, thinking that we were doing what was best for our health and others. Instead, it was psychologically and physically devastating.
I will always take precautionary measures that others request, but for myself, I will take COVID every year over that kind of isolation again. After all, it was the isolation, and not COVID, that ultimately contributed to my chronic illness.
I hear you on the loneliness. It continues to devastate me and to affect my health. My challenge is that I can't just choose to take COVID every year over the precautions: the risk is too high that it will exacerbate my illness or cause new-onset post-COVID health problems that will push me even further into disability.
(And unfortunately, the research increasingly indicates that everyone who continues to get COVID once or twice a year will probably get into long-COVID territory eventually.)
I think part of our problem is false binaries. It's not either "precautionary measures=radical isolation=loneliness" OR "zero precautions=full socialization=not loneliness." There are all sorts of things collectives and societies could be doing to make spaces more accessible so loneliness and isolation don't have to be a personal choice. It's just most of them are ... not.
I hear you that you need to choose health over socialization that comes with COVID risks. What I wanted to voice is that people who are socializing regardless of COVID, like me, are not simply ignoring the threat or living recklessly. For many of us, choosing regular socializing *is* a carefully calculated health choice.
For the most part, I agree! It's been so disappointing to see how many organizations and establishments focused on cleaning surfaces rather than improving ventilation -- even to this day.
Yes, I have read that research as well and have many serious questions about the people who participated, and the way researchers interpreted their findings.
What I think many non-disabled people don't understand is the loneliness of chronic illness. Loneliness is being alone in bed all day because I am too exhausted to think coherent thoughts. The light hurts. I can't sleep but I can't wake up, either. People think it can't or won't happen to them.
People who are not disabled/chronically ill/immunocompromised who won't take basic precautions (masks, testing) frustrate me more than anything.
I hear this all the way down. It's so hard to convey how isolating the fatigue can be, and other symptoms, and the risk of this happening to others is NOT SMALL with endlessly repeating covid infections. I love love love my friends and don't want this for them.
I’m curious what research you have to support that theory of inevitable “long covid” because I have seen nothing that suggests that is true post vaccination. I’m saying this as someone very familiar with scientific research and has friends and family involved in research around COVID and vaccines. In fact, many people who were suffering from continuous symptoms post initial Covid infection saw those symptoms alleviated by vaccination. A dear friend of mine was among such people.
Sure. There's tons of research available online if you do a quick search, but here are a few peer-reviewed highly regarded articles:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-023-02171-3?fromPaywallRec=false
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-023-01640-z?fromPaywallRec=false
THE SICK TIMES is an advocacy-oriented newsletter focused on Long COVID that collates research updates, individual stories, and advice on mitigations: https://thesicktimes.org
The great news is that vaccination DOES appear to reduce the risk of long COVID, perhaps by as much as half, which is awesome (though of course not everyone can get vaccinated, and immune-suppressed folks might not mount a great response to vaccines). But the risk of long covid increases rather than decreasing with each infection (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10454552/), so if we all keep getting it once or twice a year for decades, our odds aren't great, even with the help offered by vaccines. (Anecdotally, most of my friends with diagnosed long covid were vaccinated and boosted.)
Anecdotally, some folks have found relief with vaccination; others have gotten worse.
I'm a little bummed by your scare quotes around long covid--this is a recognized syndrome affecting millions of people, what some are calling a "mass disabling condition" (https://blogs.einsteinmed.edu/blog/2023/06/13/long-covid-is-a-mass-disabling-condition-treat-it-like-one/). The least we can do is believe those who suffer from it.
Agreeing here. While I live alone and can choose when I am out and with whom, my best friend is responsible for the care of her mother who is in her 90s. She still masks. They both test all the time. The mom was just in and out of the hospital twice recently and mostly in the ICU. Her health is fragile and my friend is still taking every precaution so she doesn't actually kill her mother. We agree with you that the pandemic still rages. I manage the cemetery district in our small town. I would prefer to not bury another person who died from COVID - I have done enough - but yes, COVID is still out there and affecting us all.
Yes, this, so much. Every time a co-worker or acquaintance or even friend off-handedly says something like "back in COVID times" I'm always (annoyingly, I am sure) interrupting to say "ummm...it is still actually very much the COVID times, tho..."
This is something I think about a lot, esp since I’m single and childless. I would like more friends in general, I only have a few close friends and a few more medium friends. But even with a small number it seems it takes an act of congress to get together, but they all have partners and families and as much as they say they prioritize friendships it’s just still so obviously a second tier consideration.
At the end of last year I was having a hard time. Holidays are painfully lonely and I reached out saying I was struggling and could use some support and seeing friends in person. They responded nicely, saying they felt for me, but in the end I only met with them once that month. They were just busy.
I’ve tried hosting regular monthly dinners, often people who said they could come back out last minute and several times I’ve had literally no one come. That gets old. This year for my birthday I wanted a low key and easy to plan get together so planned to go out to dinner with 2 close friends, planned weeks in advance and vetted time and location. Day of I let them know where the table is and one says oops she got the time wrong and her husband is out playing golf so she has to stay home with their kid. She felt bad but I found it so telling. Right now I’m taking a break from planning because I’m exhausted with the effort for so little pay off. But it means I haven’t seen people in weeks. Since they live with their partners I don’t think they care as much. So for me the biggest struggle is finding people who actually care about prioritizing friendships (not just giving lip service to that). Everyone seems happy to be acquaintances but they’re just too busy otherwise. Where are these people?!
This is so hard, Jen, and I've absolutely felt this. There are people out there who feel the same, and who want to really prioritize friendship — and I swear they're in every community. My one piece of advice would be to start looking outside of your own age group, which might also mean thinking expansively about how you can meet people. I know that's big and hard advice, but I also know there are 20-somethings and 60-somethings out there well-practiced in prioritizing friendship.
Oh yes I agree! What I referred to as my medium friends are a lovely group of women in their 60s and 70s that have been meeting weekly (in the not winter months) for a few years for an exercise class, and we also periodically get together for dinners and recently started a book club. I love them but scheduling isn’t easier. One of the book club meetings already was canceled because the host had something going on with an adult child, despite yesterday’s meeting being scheduled for some time two people backed out the day before because family was in town, a few provide regular childcare for grandkids, many travel to visit their adult children more than I ever saw my parents at that age, and all the regular travel and life and so on. I do try to get together with a smaller group between bigger get togethers, and sometimes it works great and sometimes zero people show up in the end with that group as well.
I get it, it’s just how it is. They are also all partnered and there just is a strong default to the focus being your spouse and family and friends fill in the time around that where possible. When I was first building a new community after my ex-fiancé and I split I had a small group of single girlfriends and that was the closest I’ve experienced to full friendship since grad school, but it was short lived as all were partnered again within a year and the group fell apart (I am still good friends with one but she did move out of state). But while it took a while, last night we did get the next book club meeting scheduled…I’m very much looking forward to our September get together!
I feel this so hard. I moved into a new community, post-divorce, and cast a broad net to find community and friendship -- and it just hasn't worked out. I discovered this the hard way, when I was diagnosed with a very, very treatable and survivable cancer. Even though my prognosis was very positive, I still needed some help with dog walking, meals, someone to be with my mom during my surgery, and a couple of rides. Overall, across 3 months, I needed help about 10 times. And none of my friends showed up. It's not that they backed out, it's that no one accepted my explicit requests for help and/or offered help. I had to hire people, which I am blessedly able to afford, but it made me feel so lonely.
This is so hard — and post-divorce friendship-making can also be so hard! I'm sorry none of those people showed up for you, and I hope you find the people that will soon.
Omg yes, I have thought about what I’d do if I need someone to take me home from a medical procedure where they won’t let you take an Uber! I do have a group of older women friends some of whom are retired I could ask, but I know it will be ‘if they are available’ not something someone would make themselves available for because I needed the help. Though I do think I’d be more successful getting logistical help than the quality time/ emotional intimacy friendships I’m craving.
I have the friends I do because after my ex fiancé and I broke up I realized I needed a community (I’d been guilty of being someone who’d put all my eggs in the partner basket). It took years to get to where I am today, and I’m grateful for what I’ve built through a lot of effort, but it’s still not anything like the stories in the article. I actually don’t know anyone in real life like any of those people interviewed, but they all sound amazing!
Jen - sending you care! That sounds so tough. I'm a fellow child-less and single person (not necessarily by choice!). I feel like I went through that with my closest friends for years - I wanted to hang out more and see them, and they just couldn't do it. And when I had really tough times, they weren't there for me. Ultimately, I had to sort of let go of them. We're still friends, but it is at a much reduced level, which is what they can accommodate with their partners & kids and busy lives. Maybe one day it will change, but I'm not waiting around for that. Once I let them go emotionally, I had space to cultivate new friendships with people who did have more time and space in their lives for me. Some of them were folks I knew already but hadn't put time and energy into friendship, some were folks who moved back to town. I'm on the other side of it now, but it was incredibly emotional and difficult to move through. Good luck!! I'm sure there are wonderful people out there in your area who are looking for more friendship/community as well, and I hope that your paths cross soon!
Jen, I feel this too, and I was talking about it to a fellow single/no children friend who lives in another state she moved to a couple of years ago. She has found it almost impossible to find community or friends in her new city. She has one or two married or partnered friends who *might* slot her in once or twice a year. At this point I've lived in NYC for 18 years and yet many friendships are now long-distance because people moved during the pandemic, or live in a different borough that can take hours to get to. The truth is, if you're a parent, you are busy AF and your life revolves around the kids, and that's just how it is. But it means the single person ends up doing the heavy lift most of the time (and we're busy too!) so often those friendships drift away, which is sad. The pandemic really exacerbated this, imho. People got used to either being alone or in their small nuclear unit. I know I did. And even now, I'm the one that's reaching out to people to hang out and I feel like I'm nagging them when they're not responsive. I think a lot of people are having a tough time with life now but those of us who are single feel it very acutely.
As a fellow single, childless I feel this so hard. I had a moment of realization where I looked at my friendships through the lens of "if we met now would we be friends?" and I realized that if you looked at our relationship now, we wouldn't be considered friends. I've just kindof let them go and just embraced the loneliness of it all. Someone the loneliness is just easier to deal with than the rejection of always being the one to reach out and to always feel like the only one trying in the relationship. I'll see them once a year or so for what's really more of a "status update" than a living friendship. It sucks but it's nice to know at least their thriving
One thing I should add is that I find that it's (perhaps tellingly...) much easier to find available friends in men than it is in women. My guy friends are typically much easier to meet with for hobbies or drinks. Probably because families/society are situated in a way that allows men to have free time and engage in hobbies more than it does for women. But as a single woman, actively seeking friendships and engaging in friendships with men has been significantly more fruitful than trying to keep my friendships with women (all of whom are moms) going.
There is something to this. I truly value my fellow mom friends who make time for our friendship and it’s clear to us (also sad) that when some moms cannot make time it is because her partner is not giving her that time. Does she not think she can ask her partner to care for the kids so she can go to dinner once a month or schedule a long phone date? I’m sure it’s complicated but definitely something I have observed.
I love this language of "status update" friendships. It's not as meaningful necessarily, but sometimes it's all they can give right now. I maintain hope that one day they'll have more time to be closer friends again, but knowing that it's a "status update" type of relationship now helps me not feel so frustrated by it.
It was a way of framing things that really helped me. I found so much frustrating around how I wasn't actually "doing friendship" with any of my friends. We weren't engaging in activities, or checking out new restaurants, or seeing concerts, going to museums, travelling etc. All those things that make life rich. Instead these are friendships where you meet maybe annually or quarterly to hear updates on their life and around their kids. We usually meet in someone's backyard with their kids stealing focus and husbands awkwardly making conversation. Hardly get to connect as people at all...
Jen, that sounds so hard I'm sorry you're experiencing this :(
It sucks, it really does, and I don’t have any great suggestions except that the CS community has so many awesome single and childless/childfree women in it—I think we need to find a way to harness that awesomeness!
I love the idea of routine. Right now, my BFF are in different states (NY and FL) with different aged children (10 + 7 and 6 +3). It makes getting together, or even talking on the phone, incredibly complicated. But we have a wonderful routine whereby whenever either of us is in the car alone and needs to reset, we call and leave each other a voicemail. They're usually long and meandering, but they're lovely ways to keep the pulse on each other's lives and vent our frustrations or say "I saw this cool thing that reminds me of you" or "I'm calling you to freak out so I don't say these things out loud at work and lose my job." It's the best. I leave very few voicemails for other people - or even choose to call over text, for that matter. But this has been the bread and butter of our relationship for at least 15 years. It saves the need to go into a lot of the backstory ("how's life" kinda stuff) when we do actually get to talk (which is also several times a week). But those conversations are so much more real because we already know the day-to-day stuff. And then when we do see each other in person, we just get to be us.
I call those "audio postcards"!
I love this! I did this to a friend after several texts of "We need to chat!" "Totally!" And nothing ever happened. I think we sometimes forget we can leave a message or voice note and keep somewhat updated that way.
People love Marco Polo for this — once you start doing it, it's super addictive
I've not been on Marco Polo, but I can say the voicemails are incredibly addicting. They're very raw, lots of emotion that i don't feel as safe sharing in lots of places. But somehow, from the safety of my car to my best friend's voicemail, I feel safe and loved, and gosh is it cathartic
It used Marco Polo for a very short time (to stay in touch with my godchild in a different time zone) and I wanted to like it, but didn’t seem to get it: what makes it different from sending voice messages in Whatsapp?
It's video. Marco Polo feels like asynchronous FaceTime. You get the closeness and intimacy of just watching your friend talk as they make a sandwich for lunch, or fix their hair, or drive to an appointment. The app is glitchy as hell but it's been a lifeline for me and two besties since we all now live at least an hour apart from each other.
Thanks! Now I remember it was the Cappuccino app I tried with my godchild. Similar concept but audio.
I really like the extra element of the video, it feels more intimate and immediate to share something interesting or funny I'm passing on a walk. Showing that the dog is sleeping next to me, or what I'm wearing to the party, or how messy my desk is makes it feel a little more like the person is really there. I have one friend who Marcos me while putting away groceries and interrupts her life update to show me things she found at the store and talk about what she's going to make with them.
THIS -- "And then when we do see each other in person, we just get to be us." -- so well said for why it's important to keep long distance friends looped on the mundane, lovely and frustrating of the day to day :)
My BFF and I use Voxer for this same thing -- a great way to connect almost on the daily. We actually rarely talk but we do a ton of these voice memos back and forth. Prob need to schedule an actual call lol!
I keep trying to get my friends onboard with voxer but they resist. i get not wanting to have another app, but personally i'm not a fan of whatsapp - i think it's the interface
My BFF was hesitant for the same reason and had never heard of Voxer. I convinced her to try it out for 2 weeks and to consider it an experiment -- if she didn't like it, then we wouldn't do it. I think Voxer and Marco Polo are essentially the same thing, but I could be wrong, so maybe let your friends choose which one to use and then convince them it's an experiment just to try out and see how life changes/improves with that freedom of contact.
Friendship has always been one of the most important themes in my life - I grew up in a family that ran multiple experiments at group living so the idea of chosen family is pretty ingrained, even though many of those experiences didn’t work out. How it works in practice for us now:
1) Family Dinner: every Friday, same three families, 8 kids between us, total chaos. A standing date that doesn’t change except in summer wanes a bit. A check in every Wednesday on who’s hosting. Order out, kids movie, make it easy. The single most important thing our families look forward to all week. We started it before the kids were born and then just kept going. We all used to live in the same town but we moved 20 mins away which has been tough, but this institution keeps it going.
2) Group chat and planned vacations: my college friends, which have had a name for 20 years, has a very active group chat and dedicated a summer vacation with full families at least once a year. This isn’t the same as neighborhood hanging out, but it ensures we get that feeling of co-living (big Airbnb) on a regular basis. Group chat keeps the intimacy daily.
3) Sunday hang: we’re just getting back into this after kids and the pandemic but it was a tradition we had for years — we invited friends we didn’t see enough in groups for a Sunday afternoon hang and early dinner. Not formal, just casual, mixing of groups, etc. My husband drives this one gives me the most anxiety because of my so-called need to “host” but the more casual we make it the better.
4) Men’s group/women’s group: dedicated nights/weekends of real conversations with people that have lasted years. My closest adult friends are from these investments.
5) Open door policy with next door neighbors. Our kids are in and out of each other’s house, which means we’re in and out of each other’s house. I remembered as I went over to pick up all of them for the camp run. It makes life so much easier and better for all of us.
Anyway, these are the ways we make it work and it has made our lives so much easier.
We’re slowly getting to this point with a few families in our neighborhood… our older kid is now old enough to free range and so he and his friends are routinely in and out of each other’s houses (which I adore!). My daughter’s best friend is basically my third child and vice versa. We’re at a comfortable point where we serve as backup childcare/rides and I see mixed-family vacations in the not-so-distant future. As an only child who didn’t live within walking distance of friends, this setup makes me SO happy.
Curious how you mix in obligations to extended family with these rituals! Do siblings/cousins/aging parents join in these activities?
This is a great question and has been tricky for us because both our parents are local. Sometimes parents join family dinner, and then usually Saturday night or Sunday morning we do family things. But it’s a balance. Luckily both our parents have big friend groups they have also deeply invested in and hold sacred times for so they get it. We also do week night dinners with parents sometimes - again just casual. My POV is even if it makes it slightly more chaotic, the more hands can be more helpful and we’re in it for the memories and connections, which comes with chaos.
Thanks for sharing
My parents have very, very important decades long relationships of varying closeness, and having those examples have been so key. I didn’t realize how lucky I was until recently.
These are great. I like the combination of including kids and also having times without kids. And also it seems like there's something for everyone - introverts, extroverts, and people at all income levels.
Through my work doing community organizing, I've made one of my best friends, who happens to be 49 years older than me. It's my first intergenerational friendship and I cherish it so much. We do a lot of organizing work together but have recently started hanging out more for fun - monthly dinners, book club, and we're going to see the Indigo Girls in August. A lot of my friends who are my age say things like, "Oh it's so cute that you're friends with someone who's 77!" but that feels weird to me? Like I'm doing it out of pity or something. And that's definitely not the case - she's funny, she has the best stories, and we have a lot of shared interests. And I like to think we both teach each other a lot! Anyway, I just love this friendship and it's been such a blessing over the past few years. I hope everyone has the opportunity to experience an intergenerational friendship.
I totally know what you mean — and I've seen it in the framing of a lot of other intergenerational friendships, too, and I think it has everything to do with subtly (even often unconsciously) policing the status quo, like isn't it WEIRD that you find friendship with people not your age just as valuable?
Definitely - and it just feels patronizing. This woman is 77 but not feeble or helpless. Definitely an undercurrent of ageism in those comments.
Your situation is like one of my best friends. She rented a room in college from a retired lady for almost two years, and they still stay in touch. Now she's doing grad school across the country, and the person she clicks with in her cohort the most happens to be two decades older than her. And she's all in on it! She's an old soul too, so I think she feels more seen with these women than in friendship with younger folks, and I admire her earnest approach to building relationships with people regardless of who she "should" befriend.
In the most normal way, I have been obsessed with old people since I was a child. We're not given a handbook to living, but we have experienced livers all around us - what a gift! Conversations with people 40-50 years my senior are my speed - there's so little pressure to know what's on trend or have a snappy response (and older wit is so much more accessible to me), and many, many of these conversations are imbued with the perspective of, "enjoy this now," which - no matter what age I happen to be - is always life-changing to me. I'm so happy for the richness you get to enjoy in this friendship!
OMG yes! I have always been such a fan of intergenerational friendships! You never know who you are going to connect with and it's such a blessing to find kindred spirits, why would I reject someone just because they weren't born within a few years of me? I met a close friend who is probably 25 years older than me when we worked together nearly ten years ago now. She left that toxic workplace faster than me, but we remained friends and I so appreciate spending time with her. People just don't know what they're missing out on to not have friends from other generations.
Yes! I just hung out for 3 hours today with my closest intergenerational friend — they just graduated high school (they’re a former student who I taught in middle school) and I’m 27 years older. I hope we’re still geeking out about books together when I’m in my 70s!
A sincere question after reading so many comments by people who would love to make friends: AHP, is there any chance you would set up a spreadsheet that we could opt in on to say what city we live and if we're interested in making new friends? I'm thinking of it along the lines of your plant exchange in Garden Study and this would be a lot less work, right?
Who knows, this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Yes! I was having this same thought! Let's do it, AHP!!
Please!!
Would love this
I cannot wait for this book! I’m sure you’ve probably seen it but there’s a picture that goes around on Instagram showing Americans at the drive-through sitting in their cars by themselves, waiting to get their coffee at Starbucks contrasted with a picture of Europeans sitting at an outdoor café together drinking their coffee. It feels like the perfect picture of why we are so lonely – – our society just really isn’t set up for us to be communal, and we have to make such an effort to make it happen. Thank you for all these great ideas for how we can try to work around these barriers!
The importance of the ease of hanging out (not having tons of barriers to it) is some thing that I think a lot of people don’t appreciate and some thing I notice when we are in Italy. It’s especially true outside the big cities where people just routinely run into each other, or go to the same café or wine bar every day or do the evening walk through the town and run into people. None of this requires scheduling.
This is so true - we have one friend who lives in an apartment in the downtown area of our (tiny) city. Almost anytime we're headed out as a couple, we drop him a note inviting him to join us. And many other people do the same, so he's enjoying every spontaneous hang. We could send the same last minute invite to folks living within 10min by car, but... we never do? It seems rude to ask someone to drop everything and *drive* to meet you, but not to be like, "I'm having a drink outside your front door, wanna join?"
What a great collection of interviews! I'm a lot like Sara. We moved to St Paul 4 years ago and I cast a wide net as soon as I could (the pandemic rendered the first year or two impossible). I'm not the world's most extroverted person but I recognize the importance of having a great friend group and I realize it takes work, especially now that I work remotely.
If we've talked a few times at the gym you better believe I will see if you want to get coffee. If our kids play together and you seem cool I'll probably invite your whole family over for dinner. I couldn't find a book club so I started one (one of the most nerve-wracking things I've done in my adult life!). It's been a lot of fun and I think it's been good to model for my kids.
I have a question about your tactic: you mentioned if you see someone at, say, the gym a few times and it's nice, you offer getting coffee. What about if it's the staff? My partner and I love chatting with the folks who work at our climbing gym, because they're funny and nice people with sweet doggos. But being welcoming is also literally their job... Having worked in customer service roles, I think I would feel ambiguous about a patron asking to hang out, even if I liked socializing with them on the job. Have you tried to navigate this tactfully, and if so, how has it gone?
My spouse is very good at initiating this kind of thing - he often will just tell a service worker "Hey, we're going to be getting drinks after this at XYZ place, we'd love for you to join us" and not phrase it as a request/demand that they have to actually respond to. Usually the person does not show, but occasionally someone responds really positively and either shows up or gives a genuine enough 'sorry to miss it' that it's natural to exchange numbers and set up an alternate social outing.
Oh that's a great way to do it too! The plan doesn't depend on their attendance, but they would be a welcome addition to the group. I might have to try that!
Yeah, I get that. I love the instructors at my gym so much and we have hung out, but I have waited for them to invite me.
Ah that seems appropriate. I think because I’m often a plans initiator, I feel weird waiting for someone else to do it lol, but it’s good practice for me!
I love the emphasis on regular/ordinary rather than spectacular. I’ve always been a strong friend person, but because I’ve moved a lot, much of that friend work has been oriented toward maintaining connections from afar.
Ironically, I’ve struggled more as I settled in (finally living in 1 place for 5+ years, albeit with a pandemic thrown in). One challenge for me is being the perpetually single lady — a lot of my colleagues and acquaintances have built networks around couple friends and folks with kids in their kids’ classes. Those outlets simply aren’t available to me. One longtime friend confided that those friendships aren’t necessarily deep but they are convenient, and convenience trumps meaningful at this stage of life. Intellectually, I understand that; emotionally, I struggle with it, especially as it leaves me as the inconvenient friend (unintentionally, of course, but I’m not at kid pick-up or the kid swim meet so 🤷🏻♀️).
At the same time, the longtime friends who happen to live a couple miles away are a lifeline — casual invites for a walk or to come for a drink or to pop by after kids go to sleep mean a lot. I think we would have remained friendly had we not ended up so close, but the college-era foundation made this type of close middle-age friendship ramp up easily.
So much of what you said feels true for me too. My friends are scattered across the country or they have kids and are occupied with this kid-oriented networks. I have even thought at times I should have a kid so I could fit more conveniently into their lives. I'm back where I grew up and thinking I'm staying here for family reasons despite pretty severe reservations (Texas), and it used to be that more of my core friend group were here but they have gradually moved away, leaving 3 of us plus partners and kids.
What I really struggle with is that nothing seems to happen, at any level of casualness or complexity, unless I make it happen, and I think I am approaching burnout with that. The invitation to just drop by is not there and if it were, I'm not sure how to do that, honestly. I established a monthly "family dinner" - we'd all go to the house of the friend with the kids, cook or bring something simple unless someone felt inspired, and just hang out. It was great, but it somehow fell apart around the holidays and has never got back on track. I haven't had the energy to tackle that. I feel like I'm stuck in a trap where the things I need to do to get the nourishment I need are too hard because of lack of said nourishment.
My Mr. and I feel like we wrangle cats when we try to get our friends together. It's literally exhausting because while we love them, they're flaky AF. We now just pick a date when everyone is here, a time that is basically convenient for us and say "This is what is happening. Show up at your leisure because otherwise you will miss out on fun, you absolute knobs," and then go about our business and hope others arrive.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. We get...some attendance at least. But I understand it's just not fun or fulfilling to have that network available to you. My network is equally scattered or kid-oriented/basically acquaintances (but I think if I were to have a kid we would be closer as it has been made *very* clear that I'm on the outside due to my childlessness). It's...frustrating knowing your choices have made you an other at times.
My spouse and I do a lot of 2-family unit events, even though we have a much bigger group of friends who are also friends with each other. Scheduling wise it's just less of a nightmare to get two families' calendars aligned than 4 or 6 families. An unintended consequence of this is it does help foster more intimacy- I get a lot more one-on-one time with each individual, even if we're only seeing a couple every few months this way (as opposed to seeing them at a big group thing more frequently).
“I feel like I'm stuck in a trap where the things I need to do to get the nourishment I need are too hard because of lack of said nourishment.” <— rings truer than I’d like to admit. I think I have a bit of social anxiety around the acquaintance-maybe-friend ring, so although I want to do a chill monthly dinner or brunch or something, ramping it up on my own feels harder than I’d like it to be.
The burnout of having to make things happen is real. Planning is emotionally laborous.
“Those friendships aren’t necessarily deep, but they are convenient” / “I’m not at kid pickup or the kid swim meet” — this is 100% a thing, but contextual friendships often disappear when (not if) circumstances change. When we first moved to Seattle, I cast a pretty wide net, but a lot of the friends I made wound up being the parents of my kids’ classmates/teammates. And over the past few years, as my kids’ interests and a friend groups have changed, those contextual friendships w/ parents evaporated too, even though I tried initiating and extending invitations to keep things going. It was a pretty big bummer, honestly, and left me scrambling to find or rekindle community in other places. All to say: if you genuinely feel a connection with them and have the bandwidth to maintain contact, don’t give up on your parent friends entirely. They may be in a different situation sooner than you think.
Re point 2 - my friend group calls this “closing the friend radius”! It makes sense! One predictor of future friendship is spontaneous interaction and it makes total sense to me that increasing the probability of that would also bolster existing relationships.
CLOSING THE FRIEND RADIUS! I love it!
I bought a house that I love but that is frankly ridiculously large for just one person - it has a fantastic floorplan and location that make it ideal for hosting. I'm still doing all the grunt work of moving in, but have visions of book clubs and board game nights and dinner parties and craft days. I want VERY much to create that space and community. I love everything about this piece.
Make it so!
When can I come over?
If you're in southeast Washington state, let me know! There are a couple other Culture Study connections I need to follow up on 🥰
Ooh! PNW Culture Study meetup?! I’m in Seattle.
How southeast are you?? I'm in the Spokane area :)
Oh Katherine, I'm moving to Spokane in August, please feel free to email me. brigid dot strait at gmail. I'd love to meet another CS reader.
I used to live in Spokane and still go back often to visit friends and family. If you do yoga go to Harmony Yoga or the South Hill Y for one of the classes taught by Betsy Lawrence; tell her you're new in town and I sent you. She loves welcoming new people to Spokane, knows tons of people, always happy to make new friends of any age. For real.
Thank you! I love this recommendation. I don't do yoga, but to meet someone who sounds so great, I may just try.
Walla Walla!
Okay not close enough for a weeknight, but maybe a weekend trip :P
Oooh, love Walla Walla! I'm in Olympia so maybe we can make this work as an AHP Reader Meet-up. Funny, I was thinking that this whole thread could serve as a friend-matching function kind of like the plant exchange in AHP's Garden Study newsletter.
Friendly Suggestion: A chapter about what happens when you make a major non-milestone change. Like health or sobriety. I'll admit that now that I don't drink, it's been a struggle to socialize as easily as I used to--almost a relearning of how to be a room without a planned agenda. (I'm still not great at it)
THIS! When I drank, alcohol was a shortcut to feeling confident and comfortable. Now that I’m sober, I sometimes just have to….. feel uncomfortable?? Be a little awkward?? I’m almost 5 years into my sobriety, so I’ve gotten a lot better, but it’s taken time. And I did lose touch with friends because we realized we had nothing left in common, which is tough.
The "these aren't real friends, these are drinking buddies" epiphanies were brutal--as was finding out I didn't really enjoy noisy bars and a few other socially normal activities that I was using alcohol to labor through. Thanks so much for this co-sign!
This is a good one. I feel like eating pescatarian and being interested in politics makes me less popular too
#5 about "making it happen" has me feeling so hopeful. I LOVE logistics and bringing people together and all that, but fears like "omg does this person *actually* want to hang out with me??" have so often hindered my follow-through. I'm more convinced now that I can treat my desire to "make it happen" as a strength, rather than evidence of my disproportionate investment in certain friendships.
I'm right here with you - the tension between knowing that I can and will organize a thing, and feeling like the people I'm reaching out to might not actually want me to do that, has really held me back over the years, and I'm trying not to let it limit me any more!
So excited for this book. I’ve experienced an unfortunate confluence of middle age, new motherhood, being a solo/freelance worker, and moving to a new neighborhood where we don’t know anyone. It’s been isolating!
Never in my adult life have I had a harder time making friends, (I have lots of theories on why this is), which led me to think more about community: the importance of it, and how it’s different but just as essential as a “friend group.” I’m one of the bad-at-community-bourgeois types you mentioned, so I need this field guide!
"Never in my adult life have I had a harder time making friends" I feel so much of this. I was a mom of little kids pre-pandemic, and exited the pandemic with middle-age kids. The pandemic feels like it disrupted a lot of the flow we'd created with other people, plus we emerged on the other side in a different parenting/life stage. I also work from home (which I mostly love!) but I've noticed over the past year or so how isolated I can be. I know the kind of friendships I would like to build or reflect on in a decade or two or three from now, but getting started often feels impossible!
Yes! The pandemic added an unspeakable layer of isolation to an already isolating stage of life. I had my second kid in January of 2020, so right around the time I was finally able to re-enter the world after caring for a newborn, and say, grab coffee with a friend, we went into lockdown/social distancing.
And I feel like it's messed with a lot parents' minds ever since. Like we missed out on the bonding experience we should have had with other parents during that time, and now we don't know how to be with each other.
Love love love this. #3 is why I show up to my non-audition (but we still sound so dang good) community choir. Most people are multiple generations older than me, but there are folks of all age ranges, and though some people are more friend-group-y than others, everyone's just *nice* and *happy to be there*. There are a few gals with who I got dinner once between the terms, and I'd like to do again. I think we're all just a little nervous about new friends, but I so appreciate your example of the lady who goes to lunch with just about everyone, because there's really no harm in it! Why does every social interaction have to be optimized???
I'm chewing on this: "We’ve just become incredibly impatient with the stubbornly slow work of community formation." Having graduated college into the early days of the pandemic, I didn't have precedent for post-school/family-organized community, and I think a lot of folks my generation feel the same. Things feel different now, and I know the post-grad transition can already be kind of rough, but four years later and I still feel like I'm floundering. I know people in my community - the vendors at my farmers market, the front desk staff at my climbing gym, that sort of thing - but I wouldn't call that a support system per se. I want a non-religious church-type community like what my grandparents had with their longtime congregation, with that variety of close connections and acquaintances, and a collective stepping up to help out people who need it. Very excited to read more about the book as you share, and to read it when it comes out, in hopes of seeing what might work in my life.
Your point about craving a church community without the religion part is such a good one - even though I’m not religious in any way, I’ve actually been tempted to join a church because having access to the positives of a community like that (the size, the breadth, the variety, the implied support) sounds SO good to me!
My Quaker meeting is a lot like this. It’s terrific. And after all our original name is the Religious Society of Friends!
Did you join the meeting group as an adult (if so, what motivated you to do it) or were you a Quaker as kid (and what's kept you going)? I hear these can be really incredible spaces, but I think I just don't know enough to gauge if it would be right for me.
I started as an adult! I knew about Quakers from my anti war activism during the Iraq invasion but no one in my inner circle was a Quaker. I had grown up in a liberal Episcopalian church but drifted away from organized religion during college and my twenties. My husband is Jewish and has always been very involved with Jewish organizations and a synagogue, so seeing that helped me feel increasingly like I needed my own faith tradition. My meeting has been a great fit since we are in the unprogrammed liberal Quaker tradition, which is very pluralistic (our meeting has folks who range from devout Christians to atheists!)
That sounds honestly great! How did you find the meeting, like were there key terms that helped you figure out it would be pluralistic and welcoming in that way?
I think I just looked up Quaker meetings near me. I live in an area with three of them, and just stayed with the first one I found because I immediately felt like it was a good fit. But Quakers, like many denominations, are used to people “church shopping.” Most meetings associated with Friends General Conference are pretty liberal: https://www.fgcquaker.org/find-a-meeting/ Also, if they have anything about being “welcoming” or LGBTQ friendly that’s a good sign. I’ve insisted on putting that on our website to let folks know we are a safe and welcoming place.
Yes exactly! I got on a listserv for a local Unitarian Universalist church cuz I hear they’re the ~cool church, come as you are~ vibe. But I’ve yet to show up due to consistent schedule conflicts, and am a little terrified of following through, as I find religious contexts really overwhelming. So if anyone has ideas for non-religious community spaces like this, I’m all ears!
I’ve also had UU church recommended to me based on that vibe, and I’ve also not followed through with going!
I mentioned this in an above comment, but if you're at all musical/musically interested, join a church choir! It's a great community and then you can have plausible deniability about your actual relationship to the religion (if you're still comfortable singing the type of music the choir sings).
I hadn't thought about this, I wonder how a church choir would be different from community choir. Our director explicitly tries not to do religious music, which I appreciate from an inclusive sense, but it does mean we miss out on working with soooo many beautiful compositions. If I do join a church, I think this might be a wise way to do it.
The Scheduling Is All.
I started a friend group years ago in a different city and I'm planning to do it again where we're living now. It was simple: I sent an email to a bunch of women I'd met through various aspects of my work (mostly not coworkers, although I did send it to some) and said, "You're getting this email because I so enjoy talking with you when we have the chance but we lead super busy lives so we need to schedule friendship time. I'll be at the XYZ Bakery the second Saturday of next month at 9 a.m. Come hang out, bring a cool friend with you if you like." (That last line was because I knew that as grownups it can be hard to make new friends and it might be reassuring to have at least one person there you know you like to talk to and they didn't know who else was getting the email.)
I called it Second Saturdays and boy howdy, did it roll! Everyone thought it was a great idea. All I did was pick a coffee shop location every month with room for our group (sometimes half a dozen, sometimes over a dozen) and send a reminder email. Periodically I'd send an email to the list and say "If you want to be taken off this list let me know." Invariably someone would respond with a version of "I haven't been able to go yet but I really hope to make it someday so don't take me off!"
When I moved away from that city over 10 years later the group was still meeting. I handed the email list off to someone else who kept it going for a while, although it eventually ran its course. I became friends with women I never would have met without the group--friends of friends who came and kept coming after some of the women I'd originally invited stopped making time for it.
Thank you for sharing this comment! I’ve been kicking around trying something like this and it’s so helpful to hear how people got it started.
It was surprisingly easy. So many women responded to say yes, this was exactly what it took for them to put friendship time on their calendars.