This is the midweek edition of Culture Study — the newsletter from Anne Helen Petersen, which you can read about here. If you like it and want more like it in your inbox, consider subscribing. I never thought I would be the sort of person with a massive stack of management books in their office. I would look at those books in the airport and think
My work just started doing this kind of manager training/workforce development stuff. The managers are in a longer series of trainings, but non-managers were put into a one-off workshop thing, and it was a glorious disaster. They did a DISC assessment. They talked to us about "emotional intelligence" and "growth mindsets" and "psychological safety" at work. And we pushed back on all of it, hard. The nervous laughter from the trainer reached epic levels. It kind of made my day in the end, but I was pretty angry that this level of corporate nonsense was being inflicted on us.
I LIVED for this entire interview! As someone with a Management degree, who continues to study within the Management field and looking at pursuing further education, ALL OF THIS.
One of the things that I say to people is that we don't see management as an actual skill. We don't value the position or what it entails. We think it's just someone in a position to make our lives more difficult or micromanage because they're power tripping. It's turned into more of a social stepping stone vs. seen as a position that actually requires training and knowledge.
I also wonder if we've also cast managers into this specific, stereotypical light and just kind of accept that it's going to be a shit show rather than realizing that, hey, things could be better if we invested in education, training, and looking at new ways of operating.
I mean, so much of that is also mixed in with what the business is doing, what it's priorities are, etc. A good, healthy manager can't undo harmful work environments if a workplace isn't committed to doing that work, though they can certainly try.
Thank you so much for this interview and I can't wait to get my hands on their book from the library!
I pretty much wanted to stand up and cheer as I read this, then possibly do a little dance, and then a bigger dance, on top of a table or something. YES to all of what you said, and they said, and....just YES. I have already pre-ordered your book, and I will be buying their book, and I sure as hell hope more conversations like this one get to see the light of day and that we can all link arms and fumble our way out of the darkness.
I'm a fairly low-level manager and have been one for quite a few years. I've definitely lived out what they are saying. What training I got was boiled down to a couple two-day sessions that included DISC evaluations, power point presentations and other largely unhelpful bits of info. I wasn't a great manager when I started, but thankfully I had had enough really good and really bad managers in my own career to draw lessons from, and I think I've gotten significantly better with a healthy dose of self awareness (but there's always room for improvement.)
I have some feelings about power dynamic, though, at least within the massive company where I work. I recognize as a manager I play a significant role in how the people who report to me feel about their jobs. I need to make them feel heard and supported. I have to understand what their needs are and try to either meet them or voice them to those above me. But that's where the power seems to fall apart for me. Most of my team wants opportunities to advance, and I try to dig up or create opportunities. But at the end of the day, the meaningful opportunities have to come from above me -- I can't create them out of thin air. It can feel like a game of telephone. I don't have access to the right people, so my manager tells her manager, who may or may not tell her manager, and at some point the message just goes into a black hole. So often I find myself telling my team, "I'm going to do everything in my power to identify new opportunities and champion you to those above me, but at the end of the day I don't have a lot of power in the situation so if you find what you need elsewhere I understand. I don't want you to leave, but I also understand." Maybe that's primarily a function of working in a large org and it would be different in the kind of startups you talk about, but oy, at the end of the day this level of management feels like the bullshit jobs you've referenced in previous pieces.
This is so useful. I've been supervising 20-25 hour/week (paid-above-minimum-wage) interns for the past 15 or so months and have no training on it, and it's shown me I definitely would not know what to do if I were to be a real manager. I' I'm not sure I want to be a full-on manager in the future, but I want to try to get some information now so I can know if that's a direction I'd be ok with my career going in.
This was a really great, common-sense perspective. I've been a manager just once in my career, but whether a manager or not, I wish I had read something like this when I started out in my 20s. These quotes, in particular, would've eliminated some of my angst:
My work just started doing this kind of manager training/workforce development stuff. The managers are in a longer series of trainings, but non-managers were put into a one-off workshop thing, and it was a glorious disaster. They did a DISC assessment. They talked to us about "emotional intelligence" and "growth mindsets" and "psychological safety" at work. And we pushed back on all of it, hard. The nervous laughter from the trainer reached epic levels. It kind of made my day in the end, but I was pretty angry that this level of corporate nonsense was being inflicted on us.
I LIVED for this entire interview! As someone with a Management degree, who continues to study within the Management field and looking at pursuing further education, ALL OF THIS.
One of the things that I say to people is that we don't see management as an actual skill. We don't value the position or what it entails. We think it's just someone in a position to make our lives more difficult or micromanage because they're power tripping. It's turned into more of a social stepping stone vs. seen as a position that actually requires training and knowledge.
I also wonder if we've also cast managers into this specific, stereotypical light and just kind of accept that it's going to be a shit show rather than realizing that, hey, things could be better if we invested in education, training, and looking at new ways of operating.
I mean, so much of that is also mixed in with what the business is doing, what it's priorities are, etc. A good, healthy manager can't undo harmful work environments if a workplace isn't committed to doing that work, though they can certainly try.
Thank you so much for this interview and I can't wait to get my hands on their book from the library!
I pretty much wanted to stand up and cheer as I read this, then possibly do a little dance, and then a bigger dance, on top of a table or something. YES to all of what you said, and they said, and....just YES. I have already pre-ordered your book, and I will be buying their book, and I sure as hell hope more conversations like this one get to see the light of day and that we can all link arms and fumble our way out of the darkness.
I'm a fairly low-level manager and have been one for quite a few years. I've definitely lived out what they are saying. What training I got was boiled down to a couple two-day sessions that included DISC evaluations, power point presentations and other largely unhelpful bits of info. I wasn't a great manager when I started, but thankfully I had had enough really good and really bad managers in my own career to draw lessons from, and I think I've gotten significantly better with a healthy dose of self awareness (but there's always room for improvement.)
I have some feelings about power dynamic, though, at least within the massive company where I work. I recognize as a manager I play a significant role in how the people who report to me feel about their jobs. I need to make them feel heard and supported. I have to understand what their needs are and try to either meet them or voice them to those above me. But that's where the power seems to fall apart for me. Most of my team wants opportunities to advance, and I try to dig up or create opportunities. But at the end of the day, the meaningful opportunities have to come from above me -- I can't create them out of thin air. It can feel like a game of telephone. I don't have access to the right people, so my manager tells her manager, who may or may not tell her manager, and at some point the message just goes into a black hole. So often I find myself telling my team, "I'm going to do everything in my power to identify new opportunities and champion you to those above me, but at the end of the day I don't have a lot of power in the situation so if you find what you need elsewhere I understand. I don't want you to leave, but I also understand." Maybe that's primarily a function of working in a large org and it would be different in the kind of startups you talk about, but oy, at the end of the day this level of management feels like the bullshit jobs you've referenced in previous pieces.
This is so useful. I've been supervising 20-25 hour/week (paid-above-minimum-wage) interns for the past 15 or so months and have no training on it, and it's shown me I definitely would not know what to do if I were to be a real manager. I' I'm not sure I want to be a full-on manager in the future, but I want to try to get some information now so I can know if that's a direction I'd be ok with my career going in.
This was a really great, common-sense perspective. I've been a manager just once in my career, but whether a manager or not, I wish I had read something like this when I started out in my 20s. These quotes, in particular, would've eliminated some of my angst: