I suspect this won't be a popular comment, but I feel like I have to speak up. I write this from Minnesota, where yesterday we set a heat record (55F), and where today we are under a tornado watch. Millions of people across the country labor in unsafe conditions, for inadequate pay, with unpredictable schedules, and under threat of the loss of their jobs. Can we afford to alienate potential allies in our efforts to make the world a better place for regular people?
I probably come off as defensive, and it is true that I am a white lady. But I couldn't help noticing that the only contemporary example of a problematic white woman Schullberg cites is Sheryl Sandberg. Sandberg is by no means admired by most white feminists! She herself wrote a mea culpa for Lean In after her husband died, in which she acknowledged that she had written from a position of tremendous privilege and hadn't understood the struggles of most regular people. Schullberg's other examples--Betty Friedan, and first-wave feminists--are from generations ago. I don't recognize myself or the white feminists I know in the exclusionary, privileged portraits I see in the interview.
My point is really about strategy: Think back to your favorite teachers, to the people who inspired you to give your best effort and to accomplish more than you thought possible. Were they the teachers who told you how terrible you were, or who accused you of something you hadn't done? Or were they, on the other hand, those who said, "I know you can do this! I believe in you!" and who knew you had something to offer the world? I know that whenever someone accuses me of something, especially something I didn't do, I become angry and defensive. I try not to, but it happens anyway. But when someone invites me in and asks for my help, when they believe in me, I am eager to join in and get to work.
If we allow only people whose souls are pure to be our allies, if we exclude or drive away good people who are imperfect but who nonetheless want to help, we will never change anything. Please consider calling people in, instead of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Thank you for listening.
I get hung up on the question - "When did you realize you were a feminist?" and can't focus past that point.
For me, it was in the aftermath of a breakup, when we'd been dating for almost 4 years, living together for half that time, and I'd found myself (predictably) responsible for all of the cooking (including catering to his food preferences) and cleaning, among other things, like knowing where the nearest hospital was in case we needed it, and being fully responsible for preventing pregnancy. I idly picked up a copy of Manifesta: Young Women, Feminism, and the Future, which had just come out, and suddenly had language for the things that had been bothering me.
Thank you for this interview! It sounds strange to say, but I have never felt comfortable identifying as a feminist and I never really knew why. I assumed it was because of my conservative Christian past that preached complementarianism and this negative boogeyman version of feminism that I couldn't fully shake. However, I see now that it's because most feminism I've been exposed to is white feminism that desires to create equality by squeezing themselves into white male supremacy, which has never appealed to me!
I will forever maintain that my two worst job experiences were at companies run by women (one white, one Asian) who played by the white male executive playbook in order to get to the top and expected everyone else to do the same. Both women prided themselves on creating companies that allowed themselves to balance home and work life - the white woman would even tell this story about starting the company at her dining room table with her six month old on her lap - but god forbid anyone working for them need flexibility! They ran their 9-5 companies harder and stricter than the white men they emulated, and I was incredibly anxious all of the time that I wasn't being productive enough despite working my ass off. I was always baffled that these women weren't innovative with how their employees could work and be caretakers with flexible schedules, but now I get it.
I literally just learned who bell hooks was on December 9th (may she rest in power). I happened to be looking up quotes about love and found this one by her that stuck out to me: "love is an action, never simply a feeling" and then ended up looking up her book All About Love and reading parts of it. I then started exploring more about her and her work and Black feminism and intersectional feminism and realized this is what I was hoping to find all along! I am so excited to read more from her.
I am definitely buying Kyla Schuller's book next pay day because I want to keep learning more about counterfeminism and how to be less destructive as a white woman!
"So the trouble with white women is not only that they vote, in near majorities, for far-right candidates in national elections and in Alabama and Virginia. The real trouble is that a good chunk of these women call themselves feminists!"
Astounding! Any woman who doesn’t vote the way I think she should has no moral compass is the message here. This is incredibly tedious and wrong. Every woman (and every human as well) has the right to vote as they will without being accused of ignorance or bigotry. What transparent lack of inclusion in a public utterance! Shame on you. Someone who does not agree with your political views is nonetheless a human. Get off it already.
"power materializes as ideas about sex roles — that’s what gender names! — and have doubled down on biological essentialism and identity."
"power doesn’t even belong to humans in the first place. Instead, true power is a quality of the universe, even of the divine. It is something we can tap into, but it extends far beyond our capacity to grasp it."
Which is why our species, in its arrogant ignorance, has so mindlessly minimalized its need to understand the role of other species, the earth on which all species depend, and our "importance" to the universe itself. Thank your for this lovely interview.
Thank you for this interview! Would also point people interested in this to the book AGAINST WHITE FEMINISM by Rafia Zakaria, which really helped illuminate this thinking for me.
I am shocked and thrilled to see Alice Fletcher even mentioned in this broader context -- I used to work at the archives where her papers are held and digitized thousands of pages of her work. I truly love to see it!
Golly, I cannot wait to read Kyla's book. What an incredible interview - thank you so much, Anne! I wish all the folks out here at Culture Study a restful break for the winter!
This is fantastic! I will be eagerly awaiting the softcover release, and maybe our library can get this hardcover? I'm very excited to see this kind of work being done and these conversations being hauled, shrieking and resisting, into a broader spotlight.
Thanks for the interview. I recently read _Braiding Sweetgrass_ and glad that Schuller mentioned it and put the feminism within the broader context of intersectionality and climate crisis. Will try to read the book soon.
The Trouble with White Women
I suspect this won't be a popular comment, but I feel like I have to speak up. I write this from Minnesota, where yesterday we set a heat record (55F), and where today we are under a tornado watch. Millions of people across the country labor in unsafe conditions, for inadequate pay, with unpredictable schedules, and under threat of the loss of their jobs. Can we afford to alienate potential allies in our efforts to make the world a better place for regular people?
I probably come off as defensive, and it is true that I am a white lady. But I couldn't help noticing that the only contemporary example of a problematic white woman Schullberg cites is Sheryl Sandberg. Sandberg is by no means admired by most white feminists! She herself wrote a mea culpa for Lean In after her husband died, in which she acknowledged that she had written from a position of tremendous privilege and hadn't understood the struggles of most regular people. Schullberg's other examples--Betty Friedan, and first-wave feminists--are from generations ago. I don't recognize myself or the white feminists I know in the exclusionary, privileged portraits I see in the interview.
My point is really about strategy: Think back to your favorite teachers, to the people who inspired you to give your best effort and to accomplish more than you thought possible. Were they the teachers who told you how terrible you were, or who accused you of something you hadn't done? Or were they, on the other hand, those who said, "I know you can do this! I believe in you!" and who knew you had something to offer the world? I know that whenever someone accuses me of something, especially something I didn't do, I become angry and defensive. I try not to, but it happens anyway. But when someone invites me in and asks for my help, when they believe in me, I am eager to join in and get to work.
If we allow only people whose souls are pure to be our allies, if we exclude or drive away good people who are imperfect but who nonetheless want to help, we will never change anything. Please consider calling people in, instead of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Thank you for listening.
I get hung up on the question - "When did you realize you were a feminist?" and can't focus past that point.
For me, it was in the aftermath of a breakup, when we'd been dating for almost 4 years, living together for half that time, and I'd found myself (predictably) responsible for all of the cooking (including catering to his food preferences) and cleaning, among other things, like knowing where the nearest hospital was in case we needed it, and being fully responsible for preventing pregnancy. I idly picked up a copy of Manifesta: Young Women, Feminism, and the Future, which had just come out, and suddenly had language for the things that had been bothering me.
Thank you for this interview! It sounds strange to say, but I have never felt comfortable identifying as a feminist and I never really knew why. I assumed it was because of my conservative Christian past that preached complementarianism and this negative boogeyman version of feminism that I couldn't fully shake. However, I see now that it's because most feminism I've been exposed to is white feminism that desires to create equality by squeezing themselves into white male supremacy, which has never appealed to me!
I will forever maintain that my two worst job experiences were at companies run by women (one white, one Asian) who played by the white male executive playbook in order to get to the top and expected everyone else to do the same. Both women prided themselves on creating companies that allowed themselves to balance home and work life - the white woman would even tell this story about starting the company at her dining room table with her six month old on her lap - but god forbid anyone working for them need flexibility! They ran their 9-5 companies harder and stricter than the white men they emulated, and I was incredibly anxious all of the time that I wasn't being productive enough despite working my ass off. I was always baffled that these women weren't innovative with how their employees could work and be caretakers with flexible schedules, but now I get it.
I literally just learned who bell hooks was on December 9th (may she rest in power). I happened to be looking up quotes about love and found this one by her that stuck out to me: "love is an action, never simply a feeling" and then ended up looking up her book All About Love and reading parts of it. I then started exploring more about her and her work and Black feminism and intersectional feminism and realized this is what I was hoping to find all along! I am so excited to read more from her.
I am definitely buying Kyla Schuller's book next pay day because I want to keep learning more about counterfeminism and how to be less destructive as a white woman!
"So the trouble with white women is not only that they vote, in near majorities, for far-right candidates in national elections and in Alabama and Virginia. The real trouble is that a good chunk of these women call themselves feminists!"
Astounding! Any woman who doesn’t vote the way I think she should has no moral compass is the message here. This is incredibly tedious and wrong. Every woman (and every human as well) has the right to vote as they will without being accused of ignorance or bigotry. What transparent lack of inclusion in a public utterance! Shame on you. Someone who does not agree with your political views is nonetheless a human. Get off it already.
"power materializes as ideas about sex roles — that’s what gender names! — and have doubled down on biological essentialism and identity."
"power doesn’t even belong to humans in the first place. Instead, true power is a quality of the universe, even of the divine. It is something we can tap into, but it extends far beyond our capacity to grasp it."
Which is why our species, in its arrogant ignorance, has so mindlessly minimalized its need to understand the role of other species, the earth on which all species depend, and our "importance" to the universe itself. Thank your for this lovely interview.
Thank you for this interview! Would also point people interested in this to the book AGAINST WHITE FEMINISM by Rafia Zakaria, which really helped illuminate this thinking for me.
I am shocked and thrilled to see Alice Fletcher even mentioned in this broader context -- I used to work at the archives where her papers are held and digitized thousands of pages of her work. I truly love to see it!
Golly, I cannot wait to read Kyla's book. What an incredible interview - thank you so much, Anne! I wish all the folks out here at Culture Study a restful break for the winter!
This is fantastic! I will be eagerly awaiting the softcover release, and maybe our library can get this hardcover? I'm very excited to see this kind of work being done and these conversations being hauled, shrieking and resisting, into a broader spotlight.
Well this book was an immediate buy. Can't wait to read it!
Thanks for the interview. I recently read _Braiding Sweetgrass_ and glad that Schuller mentioned it and put the feminism within the broader context of intersectionality and climate crisis. Will try to read the book soon.