Angela, I can't wait to read your book! Anne, thank you for interviewing Angela!
Within the past few years, I have come to realize that I am demisexual, which is on the ace spectrum. I need emotional connection and friendship before I can feel romantic and sexual attraction. I, too, still forget that when allo people say things like "they're hot" they aren't just talking about facial features or hairstyles! I also understand the messiness of needing an "enthusiastic yes" - 20 years ago, I often did sexual things with high school boyfriends as a nice thing to do, and many people have tried to suggest to me that in those instances I was raped when I don't see it that way at all! I consented and wanted to make them feel good even if I would have rather done more non-sexual activities with them.
I went through a lot of (non-sexual) trauma as a teen and young adult and ended up diving deep into the white Christian evangelical world and was honestly relieved that the expectation was to wait until marriage. I couldn't understand why everyone rushed to the altar marrying people they barely knew, and they couldn't understand how my husband and I had almost no temptations for sexual activities during our (3.5 year total) friendship, dating and engagement relationship! (We married in 2013.) I knew of my husband since I was 11 and we were close friends for 2 years before we started dating. But then we got married and struggled with compulsory sexuality, so the church did us no favors there. Finding out that we are both demis was a huge relief - we aren't broken! There is nothing wrong with us because we don't always want sex and don't center our relationship around that!
In 2014 (after starting to break from the church) I realized that I am also polyamorous. There are so many misconceptions out there around polyamory, but people really don't understand demisexual polyamory because to them it "doesn't count" if it isn't sexual. I have two other partners in addition to my husband, and in all three cases, it took about two years of closer friendship before we realized that we wanted to take it to the next level. S and I started "special friendship" status in August 2020, and D and I started "special friendship" status in December 2021. The few friends who know don't think of me and S as a thing because it's queer-platonic; the few friends who know about D thought of it as more legit when they found out that we've spent the night together, but changed their minds when they found out that spending the night meant snuggles and kisses and not sex.
I am looking forward to a world where different relationship arrangements are normalized!
First off, I am ace, so it's nice to see this topic covered in a way that's not like peering at a circus sideshow. Being ace has led me to just question a lot of norms, and the crushing conformity of the culture in the West (I think we DO emphasize individuality in the West, but mostly through consumption of goods; individuality is less honorable or accepted in terms of life goals or living arrangements).
Fitting into society as an ace can be hard -- I am partnered now, but was not for most of my adult life. I liked living alone, but there's an economic penalty for it, as AHP has covered before about single people. I was passed over for promotions because I was a single woman living alone (my favorite line from a boss of mine was "what would you do with more money? Buy more shoes?"). Allosexual men I dated would inevitably tell me I'm a lesbian, or I have unresolved trauma, or (worst of all) force me to have sex when I didn't want to, because it was "my role."
It's easy to fall into a trap of hating these men, or get involved in sexual identity politics. Maybe I did, for a while! But I think what we all need is just to acknowledge that a lot about humans -- our preferences, our identities, our abilities -- lie on a spectrum. In a society where binary categories in hidden databases determine our worth and opportunities, these categories are oppressive, and limiting to society. Trans* scholars have been talking about this for decades, of course, this is nothing new.
I dunno where I'm going with this, it's just nice to see a piece about this that doesn't make me feel like an amoeba under a microscope! Thank you
Thank you so much for this! I've always struggled with how much I valued friendship, as opposed to my friends, who valued romantic relationships above all else and found me weird. I've always felt like I would be left behind and be left to live and die alone. It's brutal hardly ever being attracted to anyone. The life options are painfully narrow.
And therapists need to get on the ace program fifteen years ago.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. this conversation was so validating. loved the book and thank you anne & angela for linking to other people working in this space. also how does one find an ace/ace studies reading group? nothing against discord or twitter but i am a consummate lurker & would KILL for a community space that isn't just like, scrolling through a feed
Definitely want to get a copy of this book! I've always felt kind of like an alien in this world of "compulsory sexuality". Like, my friends would talk about sex as it if was absolutely central to their lives and I believe them, but I believe them the way an alien anthropologist would, not as something I can even remotely relate to or have experienced. (These days, I describe myself as somewhere in the space of bisexual and grey-ace; I'm married to a guy, which means people assume I'm straight, which is both frustrating and also kind of hilarious because I literally have no idea what it's like to be a straight lady since I've never been one.)
(I wrote a whole big long blog post about this on my knitting blog of all places...I swear, it was kind of knitting-related!..and would be happy to share that post if anyone would want to read it.)
I had a very interesting conversation with my friend about whether and why aces are queer, and we talked a lot about outward appearances, which bi people in opposite-sex couples definitely also deal with. I'm nonbinary (heteroromantic) asexual and definitely feel queer but am not "visibly queer", which complicates things
Beautiful post- and I LOVE the mittens!! You’re very articulate. I think bi people and aces have a lot in common as their experiences are often not believed (aka ‘bi guys are actually gay but don’t want to admit it’ or ‘people just say they’re bi so that they’re not seen as boring’)- sometimes even in the LGBTQIA+ community. And also aces and bis can be seen as straight passing in certain situations.
This is so helpful and validating to read! I read Angela's book a while ago but had lingering questions. I went on a couple dates with someone recently and was talking with my friend yesterday about whether I am really ace if I decide at some point to have sex with him (I believe I texted them "what if I'm actually a cishet normie?"). I did a lot of googling about the difference between sexual attraction (still no clue what that means or how to tell if I experience it) and sexual desire/drive, and that combined with this piece was very reassuring. Thank you so much for writing this and interviewing Angela for her wisdom.
I read this interview very much thinking of an old friend who was always very clear that she didn't experience attraction, but who enjoyed sex. She's been married forever now.
Thank you for this interview Anne! And thank you to Angela, your book has been on my to-read list forever and I'm just going to get the damn audiobook already. And thank you for the link to the Nocturnal Introverts article. I definitely identify with those folks as well and share the frustration that western medicine too often wants things to be in absolutes and not the ever changing spectrum that humans can be. Currently I'm in a place of "Is this really sexual attraction to this person? Or is it peri-menopause and my last 5 eggs are looking for glory?"
For all my fellow Aces in the comments I see you! For some reason liking anything on Culture Study lately gives me an error but I'm smashing all the hearts in my mind! (Edited to add: Seems to be working now!)
Thank you to Anne and Angela for a wonderful, nuanced read about asexuality. I’ve always known on some level that I was ace but over the last few years, I’ve really come into my own with researching it and nerding out over the complexity of the language used within ace spaces. I never realised how important it was to have the language to explain myself, until I saw them written down and saw that someone else felt the same way I did- and promptly burst into tears.
And I had a fantastic time reading the linked sources and finding new people to follow. Sherronda J Brown’s book looking more into the black lived experience of asexuality sounds fascinating. Most of the ace people I’ve seen online are white, female presenting, thin and often partnered and “straight passing”. I’ve been searching for different voices to follow and learn from.
If there’s anyone reading my essay and knows of some ace people to follow that we don’t normally hear from, let me know in the comments!
Angela, I can't wait to read your book! Anne, thank you for interviewing Angela!
Within the past few years, I have come to realize that I am demisexual, which is on the ace spectrum. I need emotional connection and friendship before I can feel romantic and sexual attraction. I, too, still forget that when allo people say things like "they're hot" they aren't just talking about facial features or hairstyles! I also understand the messiness of needing an "enthusiastic yes" - 20 years ago, I often did sexual things with high school boyfriends as a nice thing to do, and many people have tried to suggest to me that in those instances I was raped when I don't see it that way at all! I consented and wanted to make them feel good even if I would have rather done more non-sexual activities with them.
I went through a lot of (non-sexual) trauma as a teen and young adult and ended up diving deep into the white Christian evangelical world and was honestly relieved that the expectation was to wait until marriage. I couldn't understand why everyone rushed to the altar marrying people they barely knew, and they couldn't understand how my husband and I had almost no temptations for sexual activities during our (3.5 year total) friendship, dating and engagement relationship! (We married in 2013.) I knew of my husband since I was 11 and we were close friends for 2 years before we started dating. But then we got married and struggled with compulsory sexuality, so the church did us no favors there. Finding out that we are both demis was a huge relief - we aren't broken! There is nothing wrong with us because we don't always want sex and don't center our relationship around that!
In 2014 (after starting to break from the church) I realized that I am also polyamorous. There are so many misconceptions out there around polyamory, but people really don't understand demisexual polyamory because to them it "doesn't count" if it isn't sexual. I have two other partners in addition to my husband, and in all three cases, it took about two years of closer friendship before we realized that we wanted to take it to the next level. S and I started "special friendship" status in August 2020, and D and I started "special friendship" status in December 2021. The few friends who know don't think of me and S as a thing because it's queer-platonic; the few friends who know about D thought of it as more legit when they found out that we've spent the night together, but changed their minds when they found out that spending the night meant snuggles and kisses and not sex.
I am looking forward to a world where different relationship arrangements are normalized!
First off, I am ace, so it's nice to see this topic covered in a way that's not like peering at a circus sideshow. Being ace has led me to just question a lot of norms, and the crushing conformity of the culture in the West (I think we DO emphasize individuality in the West, but mostly through consumption of goods; individuality is less honorable or accepted in terms of life goals or living arrangements).
Fitting into society as an ace can be hard -- I am partnered now, but was not for most of my adult life. I liked living alone, but there's an economic penalty for it, as AHP has covered before about single people. I was passed over for promotions because I was a single woman living alone (my favorite line from a boss of mine was "what would you do with more money? Buy more shoes?"). Allosexual men I dated would inevitably tell me I'm a lesbian, or I have unresolved trauma, or (worst of all) force me to have sex when I didn't want to, because it was "my role."
It's easy to fall into a trap of hating these men, or get involved in sexual identity politics. Maybe I did, for a while! But I think what we all need is just to acknowledge that a lot about humans -- our preferences, our identities, our abilities -- lie on a spectrum. In a society where binary categories in hidden databases determine our worth and opportunities, these categories are oppressive, and limiting to society. Trans* scholars have been talking about this for decades, of course, this is nothing new.
I dunno where I'm going with this, it's just nice to see a piece about this that doesn't make me feel like an amoeba under a microscope! Thank you
Thank you so much for this! I've always struggled with how much I valued friendship, as opposed to my friends, who valued romantic relationships above all else and found me weird. I've always felt like I would be left behind and be left to live and die alone. It's brutal hardly ever being attracted to anyone. The life options are painfully narrow.
And therapists need to get on the ace program fifteen years ago.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. this conversation was so validating. loved the book and thank you anne & angela for linking to other people working in this space. also how does one find an ace/ace studies reading group? nothing against discord or twitter but i am a consummate lurker & would KILL for a community space that isn't just like, scrolling through a feed
Definitely want to get a copy of this book! I've always felt kind of like an alien in this world of "compulsory sexuality". Like, my friends would talk about sex as it if was absolutely central to their lives and I believe them, but I believe them the way an alien anthropologist would, not as something I can even remotely relate to or have experienced. (These days, I describe myself as somewhere in the space of bisexual and grey-ace; I'm married to a guy, which means people assume I'm straight, which is both frustrating and also kind of hilarious because I literally have no idea what it's like to be a straight lady since I've never been one.)
(I wrote a whole big long blog post about this on my knitting blog of all places...I swear, it was kind of knitting-related!..and would be happy to share that post if anyone would want to read it.)
I had a very interesting conversation with my friend about whether and why aces are queer, and we talked a lot about outward appearances, which bi people in opposite-sex couples definitely also deal with. I'm nonbinary (heteroromantic) asexual and definitely feel queer but am not "visibly queer", which complicates things
I’d love to read the post! I love hearing ace’s thoughts on relationships. It’s so good to hear from someone else that I’m not alone in my feelings ❤️
Here you go: https://whitknits.wordpress.com/2019/06/18/a-little-less-invisible/
Beautiful post- and I LOVE the mittens!! You’re very articulate. I think bi people and aces have a lot in common as their experiences are often not believed (aka ‘bi guys are actually gay but don’t want to admit it’ or ‘people just say they’re bi so that they’re not seen as boring’)- sometimes even in the LGBTQIA+ community. And also aces and bis can be seen as straight passing in certain situations.
Also your “alien anthropologist” comment made me laugh as I have often felt like an anthropologist whilst watching one of my fave shows, Love Island!
I follow your knitting blog. I read that post and it was so educational for me!
Hi, fellow knitter! It's so nice to hear that my post was educational for you and it makes me really happy to know that people still follow my blog :)
This is so helpful and validating to read! I read Angela's book a while ago but had lingering questions. I went on a couple dates with someone recently and was talking with my friend yesterday about whether I am really ace if I decide at some point to have sex with him (I believe I texted them "what if I'm actually a cishet normie?"). I did a lot of googling about the difference between sexual attraction (still no clue what that means or how to tell if I experience it) and sexual desire/drive, and that combined with this piece was very reassuring. Thank you so much for writing this and interviewing Angela for her wisdom.
I read this interview very much thinking of an old friend who was always very clear that she didn't experience attraction, but who enjoyed sex. She's been married forever now.
Thank you for this interview Anne! And thank you to Angela, your book has been on my to-read list forever and I'm just going to get the damn audiobook already. And thank you for the link to the Nocturnal Introverts article. I definitely identify with those folks as well and share the frustration that western medicine too often wants things to be in absolutes and not the ever changing spectrum that humans can be. Currently I'm in a place of "Is this really sexual attraction to this person? Or is it peri-menopause and my last 5 eggs are looking for glory?"
For all my fellow Aces in the comments I see you! For some reason liking anything on Culture Study lately gives me an error but I'm smashing all the hearts in my mind! (Edited to add: Seems to be working now!)
Thank you to Anne and Angela for a wonderful, nuanced read about asexuality. I’ve always known on some level that I was ace but over the last few years, I’ve really come into my own with researching it and nerding out over the complexity of the language used within ace spaces. I never realised how important it was to have the language to explain myself, until I saw them written down and saw that someone else felt the same way I did- and promptly burst into tears.
And I had a fantastic time reading the linked sources and finding new people to follow. Sherronda J Brown’s book looking more into the black lived experience of asexuality sounds fascinating. Most of the ace people I’ve seen online are white, female presenting, thin and often partnered and “straight passing”. I’ve been searching for different voices to follow and learn from.
If there’s anyone reading my essay and knows of some ace people to follow that we don’t normally hear from, let me know in the comments!