This is something I have been wrestling with for the past several years.
Since the establishment of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that explored the history of residential schools in Canada, I have been on my own personal journey of Reconciliation. I am descended from settlers and had close family members who worked in residential schools (as civilians, not clergy) and who participated in the Sixties Scoop. I know I am not alone; statistically I can't be, but few will admit it.
I don't know exactly what my family members saw or condoned or actively participated in. But I do know that understanding the truth has to happen before we can truly move forward. So that is how I have chosen to approach this with my own kids.
We are not our ancestors, however I do feel a tremendous duty to atone for the wrongs they helped perpetuate. I can hold the nuance and complexity of the situation and sit in the uncomfortable-ness and shame of it all. It pales in comparison to the generational trauma inflicted on our indigenous communities.
I can't wait to read this book. I have also benefitted from HOW THE WORD WAS PASSED by Clint Smith.
What a fascinating interview. Texas is, indeed, a whole other country. I moved to Houston for college from Jakarta, and boy did I experience cultural shock (I’d naively thought the few American—Californian, really, sitcoms I’d watched would prepare me somewhat). I stayed for 20 years and I grew to love it and partake in Aggie jokes and eye-rolling about Dallas. I also got the “poor you” look here in California, whenever I mentioned that I lived in Texas for a long time. I agree that Texas politics have gotten more extreme; unfortunately the right wing finds it really easy to appeal to the darker side of Texas exceptionalism (which is very similar to California exceptionalism).
My comment is topic adjacent; as a Texan I really appreciate the reminder for the wider audience that the stories we tell about <insert literally any place> shape that place too. I was listening to a podcast recently where both speakers were gender-non-conforming, and both grew up in Texas in the 1990s. And they kept saying things like “as a queer kid in Texas”, where we’re meant to understand as “in enemy territory“. And as a straight kid in Texas a little older than them, I get why they would say that and why they would have felt that way! AND, I believe they were mistaking the era of their youth (post-AIDS America, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell America) with the geography of their youth (California in the mid 90s had a Republican governor, Texas had a Democrat, although neither actively supported LGBTQ rights). They let what Texas means to them today define what historical Texas is too. Which is not to say that historical Texas has been great either (as is clearly laid out in this book that I can’t wait to read), just that we should stop treating Texas as a caricature of conservative extremism when it’s not really that different from any other part of the US.
Pretending that California or New York or Pennsylvania are all that different from Texas is being naïve to the problems right under our noses.
I'd go a step further and say that pretending California/ NY/ Pennsylvania are that different gives the states a pass on their bad behavior too. I grew up in Texas. I have lived in the Midwest and up and down the west coast. My husband is from the deep south. California is deeply, deeply segregated - more segregated than I felt in Texas growing up. Portland is a f*cking segregation nightmare. The midwest is segregated. I have seen Confederate flags in Pennsylvania. It's easy and fun to drag on the south but the entire country has some introspection to do.
(And to the queer point - California passed Prop 8, Constitutionally banning gay marriage, in *2008*.)
“All Texas kids take Texas History in 4th and 7th grades.” Now I’m questioning whether that’s universal. I’ve always assumed it was, but does every state actually do that? I’ve also never before wondered how they would teach that in the South.
I also appreciated her comment about how neither Texans nor Christians are as one note as the current cultural view. I’m old enough to remember Christian = bleeding-heart liberal. Like Jimmy Carter. It’s been a weird transition.
I’m first-generation American, so I have no U.S. history heritage, but it always sounded like something fascinating to research and uncover. And fraught.
I had the Catholic school version of Ohio History in 7th grade before moving to North Carolina for 8th grade where I got a heavily sanitized version of NC history.
We took Michigan history around fourth grade, and went up on the school bus to the state Capitol. My Girl Scout troop also visited Lansing. I don’t remember getting Michigan history again after that.
I really enjoyed this. My grandfather was a Tammany boss in NYC; my grandmother was the receptionist at Tammany Hall for 23 years. Growing up, I was supposed to be proud of this -- and I was, in a weird way. But learning more about political machines, especially Tammany's death throes, as Democrats became more diverse and progressive, and to think that my family members worked against that, not only aches but also goes against the grain of the people I thought I knew.
I am looking forward to reading this book. My family has deep roots in Texas. It is the state that makes the most sense to me and is in many ways home, but also that I am so, so glad I don't live in anymore.
I don't know if it's talked about in the book, but my family has deep roots in south Texas, but came by a rather unconventional route. Archduke Maximilian of Austria briefly declared himself emperor of Mexico. To help shore up support, he and his allies encouraged immigrants from Europe to come, paying for their passage by boat and promising good land or mines or something in Mexico. I guess things weren't great for my ancestors, so they decided to take Max up on his offer. When things weren't so great in Mexico, they crossed the Rio Grande into Texas, and there they stayed.
There's also a lot of lore in south Texas about how King Ranch got so big that I'm curious if it's covered in the book.
How wild to see the King Ranch mentioned here. My parents live in that area and my Dad has had some work ties to the ranch. We’re recent immigrants though, only arrived a couple of decades ago.
I DID read the Jeanette Oke books as a kid and I'd love to hear additional thoughts! I've thought about them a lot as an adult but I haven't returned to them.
Excited to read this book! One of my grandparents descended from a similar story, with many of his ancestors coming to Texas from Tennessee. Many of the Tennessee ancestors were enslavers, yet I hadn't known that until I started looking at archival records. My grandpa died young at the bottom of a whiskey bottle right after I was born - not sure if more information would've been shared if he'd lived. There's a some kind of crazy story on that line thay I haven't been able to find a paper trail for - of my gg-great grandpa's brother and wife getting "bushwhacked" around 1850 in northeast Texas. That's all the family lore via internet says. One word on the tree: "bushwhacked."
Janette Oke! Yes, I also read a bunch of those books coming up. I will it say I was the most enlightened tween, so it was probably just my (at the time) Catholicism that made even tween me think “well this book sure has a point of view!” and noticing that it was trying to indoctrinate me.
When I lived in New Orleans, I met a number of Vietnamese business owners and their staff. Many had passed through Texas on their way (Houston has a significant Vietnamese community). I asked why they hadn’t stayed in Texas. A couple of people told me they did not feel welcome there any more. We don’t hear the Asian story in Texas that much and I wonder if others will leave.
Jessica is an old internet friend of mine so it was a nice surprise to see her name here and learn more about her family history! Such a great interview. I would love to hear her thoughts on Janette Oke...I tore through those books in junior high and high school and I'm positive they did not age well.
For 75 years, no one in Diane's family knew anything about her grandfather's suicide mainly because the subject was taboo. Finally Diane did the research, discovered he'd been tossed in a potter's grave in Mankato and was never memorialized. So in 1992 she did a memorial ... and boy was her older brother pissed. Having just begun dating her, and this being my first visit to her insular farm community in Minnesota (Texas has nothing on Minnesota), it struck me at the time as bizarre.
But now I understand! She was correcting the narrative that had been passed down. Fortunately her brother had the bad sense to yell at her in their father's house, she stormed out and drove back to Chicago, and her normally even-tempered, good-humored father got so mad at her brother, he didn't talk to him for days until the old dope apologized.
And if you want to know the whole story, it's the first chapter in this book:
Super fascinating. Can't wait to read the book. My family (dad's side) has a long history in America - came over in 1732 and this is making me want to explore those stories and connections more. Several of my relatives fought with Washington in the American Revolution and my dad loves to tell how they were good "Christian" men and I often think how what stands for Christian now is not what it was in the 1700s. I listen to him spool and wind the narrative to fit his small view of what a good, god fearing, constitutional loving patriot should be and how our family has a deep history of this and I think that if those relatives were alive now they would not agree. It is deeply interesting how we use narrative, family narrative to justify, often, small, dark, and oppressive personal and world views.
I am feeling the bug to join ancestry and start digging. And to snag this book and get to reading.
Long and complicated family history on both sides here- joined 23 and me about 11 years ago and ancestry about 6 years ago. Recommend it if you can approach your findings objectively (within reason, we’re human), and understand that your relatives may be way, WAY less interested in what you might uncover 😓 My family is more complex than I ever imagined and I’ve grown to a place where I can appreciate that
This sounded interesting from the beginning but I’m SUPER intrigued by the CofC stuff because I grew up in that not-a-denomination too and I have a ton of thoughts about the ahistorical narrative it presents. I’ll be checking this out!
I found this interview fascinating. I will definitely read her book. I grew up in the Mormon Church where genealogy has a strong emphasis. For very odd reasons, but nonetheless, most members are advised to do genealogy research. My mother is the one that has done most of the work on our family history. It is her reason for living. It’s to the point where she cares more for her dead family than her children that are alive. She tells us stories all the time about our ancestors but I can’t help but feel like it’s all filtered to take out the bad stuff. To me focusing on just the good or worthy stories is not real life. Life is messy and complicated and nuanced. I want to hear about all that. Not the neat, tied with a bow stories.
This is something I have been wrestling with for the past several years.
Since the establishment of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that explored the history of residential schools in Canada, I have been on my own personal journey of Reconciliation. I am descended from settlers and had close family members who worked in residential schools (as civilians, not clergy) and who participated in the Sixties Scoop. I know I am not alone; statistically I can't be, but few will admit it.
I don't know exactly what my family members saw or condoned or actively participated in. But I do know that understanding the truth has to happen before we can truly move forward. So that is how I have chosen to approach this with my own kids.
We are not our ancestors, however I do feel a tremendous duty to atone for the wrongs they helped perpetuate. I can hold the nuance and complexity of the situation and sit in the uncomfortable-ness and shame of it all. It pales in comparison to the generational trauma inflicted on our indigenous communities.
I can't wait to read this book. I have also benefitted from HOW THE WORD WAS PASSED by Clint Smith.
What a fascinating interview. Texas is, indeed, a whole other country. I moved to Houston for college from Jakarta, and boy did I experience cultural shock (I’d naively thought the few American—Californian, really, sitcoms I’d watched would prepare me somewhat). I stayed for 20 years and I grew to love it and partake in Aggie jokes and eye-rolling about Dallas. I also got the “poor you” look here in California, whenever I mentioned that I lived in Texas for a long time. I agree that Texas politics have gotten more extreme; unfortunately the right wing finds it really easy to appeal to the darker side of Texas exceptionalism (which is very similar to California exceptionalism).
My comment is topic adjacent; as a Texan I really appreciate the reminder for the wider audience that the stories we tell about <insert literally any place> shape that place too. I was listening to a podcast recently where both speakers were gender-non-conforming, and both grew up in Texas in the 1990s. And they kept saying things like “as a queer kid in Texas”, where we’re meant to understand as “in enemy territory“. And as a straight kid in Texas a little older than them, I get why they would say that and why they would have felt that way! AND, I believe they were mistaking the era of their youth (post-AIDS America, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell America) with the geography of their youth (California in the mid 90s had a Republican governor, Texas had a Democrat, although neither actively supported LGBTQ rights). They let what Texas means to them today define what historical Texas is too. Which is not to say that historical Texas has been great either (as is clearly laid out in this book that I can’t wait to read), just that we should stop treating Texas as a caricature of conservative extremism when it’s not really that different from any other part of the US.
Pretending that California or New York or Pennsylvania are all that different from Texas is being naïve to the problems right under our noses.
I'd go a step further and say that pretending California/ NY/ Pennsylvania are that different gives the states a pass on their bad behavior too. I grew up in Texas. I have lived in the Midwest and up and down the west coast. My husband is from the deep south. California is deeply, deeply segregated - more segregated than I felt in Texas growing up. Portland is a f*cking segregation nightmare. The midwest is segregated. I have seen Confederate flags in Pennsylvania. It's easy and fun to drag on the south but the entire country has some introspection to do.
(And to the queer point - California passed Prop 8, Constitutionally banning gay marriage, in *2008*.)
“All Texas kids take Texas History in 4th and 7th grades.” Now I’m questioning whether that’s universal. I’ve always assumed it was, but does every state actually do that? I’ve also never before wondered how they would teach that in the South.
I also appreciated her comment about how neither Texans nor Christians are as one note as the current cultural view. I’m old enough to remember Christian = bleeding-heart liberal. Like Jimmy Carter. It’s been a weird transition.
I’m first-generation American, so I have no U.S. history heritage, but it always sounded like something fascinating to research and uncover. And fraught.
State and local government is required at Texas state universities too!
Utah does it in 4th and 7th as well. Was heavily sanitized into the early 2000s and I can't imagine it's improved!
I had the Catholic school version of Ohio History in 7th grade before moving to North Carolina for 8th grade where I got a heavily sanitized version of NC history.
Washington state also does state history in 4th and 7th grades...I remember because my kids were so annoyed to take it again.
Connecticut History was definitely not on any curriculum I ever took or heard of.
I got town history in 3rd grade but not much about the state as a whole.
We took Michigan history around fourth grade, and went up on the school bus to the state Capitol. My Girl Scout troop also visited Lansing. I don’t remember getting Michigan history again after that.
I really enjoyed this. My grandfather was a Tammany boss in NYC; my grandmother was the receptionist at Tammany Hall for 23 years. Growing up, I was supposed to be proud of this -- and I was, in a weird way. But learning more about political machines, especially Tammany's death throes, as Democrats became more diverse and progressive, and to think that my family members worked against that, not only aches but also goes against the grain of the people I thought I knew.
I am looking forward to reading this book. My family has deep roots in Texas. It is the state that makes the most sense to me and is in many ways home, but also that I am so, so glad I don't live in anymore.
I don't know if it's talked about in the book, but my family has deep roots in south Texas, but came by a rather unconventional route. Archduke Maximilian of Austria briefly declared himself emperor of Mexico. To help shore up support, he and his allies encouraged immigrants from Europe to come, paying for their passage by boat and promising good land or mines or something in Mexico. I guess things weren't great for my ancestors, so they decided to take Max up on his offer. When things weren't so great in Mexico, they crossed the Rio Grande into Texas, and there they stayed.
There's also a lot of lore in south Texas about how King Ranch got so big that I'm curious if it's covered in the book.
How wild to see the King Ranch mentioned here. My parents live in that area and my Dad has had some work ties to the ranch. We’re recent immigrants though, only arrived a couple of decades ago.
I DID read the Jeanette Oke books as a kid and I'd love to hear additional thoughts! I've thought about them a lot as an adult but I haven't returned to them.
Me too. One of my mom's friend's loaned them to me. I have mostly forgotten them, but in many way they were my first introduction to chick lit.
Excited to read this book! One of my grandparents descended from a similar story, with many of his ancestors coming to Texas from Tennessee. Many of the Tennessee ancestors were enslavers, yet I hadn't known that until I started looking at archival records. My grandpa died young at the bottom of a whiskey bottle right after I was born - not sure if more information would've been shared if he'd lived. There's a some kind of crazy story on that line thay I haven't been able to find a paper trail for - of my gg-great grandpa's brother and wife getting "bushwhacked" around 1850 in northeast Texas. That's all the family lore via internet says. One word on the tree: "bushwhacked."
Janette Oke! Yes, I also read a bunch of those books coming up. I will it say I was the most enlightened tween, so it was probably just my (at the time) Catholicism that made even tween me think “well this book sure has a point of view!” and noticing that it was trying to indoctrinate me.
Wont say not will it say
When I lived in New Orleans, I met a number of Vietnamese business owners and their staff. Many had passed through Texas on their way (Houston has a significant Vietnamese community). I asked why they hadn’t stayed in Texas. A couple of people told me they did not feel welcome there any more. We don’t hear the Asian story in Texas that much and I wonder if others will leave.
Apparently Vietnamese is the third most spoken language in Texas after English and Spanish!
Jessica is an old internet friend of mine so it was a nice surprise to see her name here and learn more about her family history! Such a great interview. I would love to hear her thoughts on Janette Oke...I tore through those books in junior high and high school and I'm positive they did not age well.
For 75 years, no one in Diane's family knew anything about her grandfather's suicide mainly because the subject was taboo. Finally Diane did the research, discovered he'd been tossed in a potter's grave in Mankato and was never memorialized. So in 1992 she did a memorial ... and boy was her older brother pissed. Having just begun dating her, and this being my first visit to her insular farm community in Minnesota (Texas has nothing on Minnesota), it struck me at the time as bizarre.
But now I understand! She was correcting the narrative that had been passed down. Fortunately her brother had the bad sense to yell at her in their father's house, she stormed out and drove back to Chicago, and her normally even-tempered, good-humored father got so mad at her brother, he didn't talk to him for days until the old dope apologized.
And if you want to know the whole story, it's the first chapter in this book:
https://online.fliphtml5.com/pxuup/oymz/#p=1
Super fascinating. Can't wait to read the book. My family (dad's side) has a long history in America - came over in 1732 and this is making me want to explore those stories and connections more. Several of my relatives fought with Washington in the American Revolution and my dad loves to tell how they were good "Christian" men and I often think how what stands for Christian now is not what it was in the 1700s. I listen to him spool and wind the narrative to fit his small view of what a good, god fearing, constitutional loving patriot should be and how our family has a deep history of this and I think that if those relatives were alive now they would not agree. It is deeply interesting how we use narrative, family narrative to justify, often, small, dark, and oppressive personal and world views.
I am feeling the bug to join ancestry and start digging. And to snag this book and get to reading.
Long and complicated family history on both sides here- joined 23 and me about 11 years ago and ancestry about 6 years ago. Recommend it if you can approach your findings objectively (within reason, we’re human), and understand that your relatives may be way, WAY less interested in what you might uncover 😓 My family is more complex than I ever imagined and I’ve grown to a place where I can appreciate that
This sounded interesting from the beginning but I’m SUPER intrigued by the CofC stuff because I grew up in that not-a-denomination too and I have a ton of thoughts about the ahistorical narrative it presents. I’ll be checking this out!
I found this interview fascinating. I will definitely read her book. I grew up in the Mormon Church where genealogy has a strong emphasis. For very odd reasons, but nonetheless, most members are advised to do genealogy research. My mother is the one that has done most of the work on our family history. It is her reason for living. It’s to the point where she cares more for her dead family than her children that are alive. She tells us stories all the time about our ancestors but I can’t help but feel like it’s all filtered to take out the bad stuff. To me focusing on just the good or worthy stories is not real life. Life is messy and complicated and nuanced. I want to hear about all that. Not the neat, tied with a bow stories.
How was she “illegal” if her family was migrating well before there were passports and border documentation/controls at all, as it appears they were?